Judge Academy > Transcript – April First Week: Feedback Perspectives

Transcript – April First Week: Feedback Perspectives

3:00:34 pm – Samantha Harr:
Hello everyone, and welcome to our first week series here at Judge Academy right now. It is first week, April, and I’m Samantha Harr. I’m your communications manager over a Judge Academy today. We’ve got Isaac King here to help us talk about feedback culture in the judge community. So Isaac, will you tell us a little bit about yourself for the audience?

3:00:56 pm – Isaac King:
Sure. Hi, happy to be here. My name is Isaac King. I am a Level Sure. Hi, happy to be here. My name is Isaac. King. I am, a Level 2 currently, from British Columbia Canada. I’ve been a judge for about eight years at this point. Feedback is something that I’ve always been very interested in and so I’m excited to talk about it.

3:01:14 pm – Samantha Harr:
That’s great, that’s fantastic. I am really pretty passionate about feedback, too. It’s something that I have encountered a lot in my academic life and it’s something that I see. Can really thrive in the judge program. And I find that I what some of the things I find though is that people can have different sort of ideas about what feedback culture can mean. And I think that it’s really good, that sort of talk about those things and talk about those differences similarities perceptions. Because I think that we as a community are sort of ready to, you know, especially as events come back, get better at this get even better. Even if we are good at it already. Some of us like let’s let’s get better at it. So We wanted to talk a, you know, back and forth. Share some of our own opinions and see what we kind of agree on maybe disagree on or where we can kind of meet in the middle on certain things. So with all the different nuances, Isaac surrounding the term feedback culture, what what do you think that that term means to you, specifically?

3:02:10 pm – Isaac King:
Sure. So I think that obviously, it’s a very vague term when I use it. What I’m referring to kind of is In the in the in this case the judge community do people feel comfortable giving feedback to other people. Knowing that they’re not going to, there’s not going to be a backlash or the other person isn’t going to get super upset at them about it. And then also does everyone know that they can safely ask for feedback if they want it. So for example, I was talking to someone a while ago about presentation that they gave at a judge conference, it was the first presentation they ever gave. And They? It went okay, it didn’t go great and they hadn’t asked anybody for feedback or advice on the presentation before giving it. And this wasn’t because they, you know, didn’t care or because it wasn’t even because they were shy or nervous. It was just because it hadn’t occurred to them. That, that was something they could do it because in their normal life, that just, it doesn’t come up. That’s not, that’s not how most of human culture works. And so I think one of the biggest aspects of a healthy feedback culture is that people are aware that they can ask for feedback, anytime they they want it.

3:03:30 pm – Samantha Harr:
That’s such a good point. You know, I I think because it’s it’s a part, you know, I am in school for art specifically. So feedback culture is something that is just ingrained in everything we do and I guess I hadn’t really considered that that’s probably not true. Is it a lot of people’s jobs or work lives or whatever they’re doing outside the home, you know I I have definitely been at jobs where if I asked for feedback, people would assume that. Maybe negative things, maybe you know, who knows, who knows.

3:03:55 pm – Isaac King:
Yeah, it can be seen as a sign of

3:03:56 pm – Samantha Harr:
But

3:03:57 pm – Isaac King:
weakness or a sign of not knowing what you’re doing and so people tend to avoid it in those sorts of

3:04:00 pm – Samantha Harr:
Yeah.

3:04:03 pm – Isaac King:
communities.

3:04:04 pm – Samantha Harr:
Yeah, and I find that I mean and this is my personal experience. I find that In my own personal experience. Every time I’ve been around other judges giving and receiving feedback everybody whether they’re good at it or not. Regardless people want each other to be better. Like every judge, I know genuinely wants themselves and others to be better. At being judges and it being members of his community. So I think there’s a lot of, I think there’s a lot of value there, and I think that that’s something, we should all really treasure that. We have each other for. So, Feedback culture to me, is something. That when I think about it, I it’s tough because I, I want everyone to be receptive to feedback, but I also find that The way people give and receive feedback can really, really impact how it is given or received. Some people really thrive with direct feedback, giving it or receiving it, some people need some time or maybe need specific people to give them feedback. I know that I personally I don’t like getting feedback in the moment, I like to sort of simmer on it. Think about, you know, if an event’s going, really bad. I know my events going really bad. So so I tend to like to meet

3:05:21 pm – Isaac King:
Sure.

3:05:22 pm – Samantha Harr:
personally personally attend to like to sort of simmer on things and come back to it later and then talk to other people. So I don’t feel like beaten up at the moment, but That also, you know, leaves room for me to sometimes misfeedback. So you so I agree building a culture in which we can all sort of politely lovingly, give each other the feedback we need to give is a good thing and I think that’s fantastic. So Isaac.

3:05:48 pm – Isaac King:
Yeah.

3:05:49 pm – Samantha Harr:
the judge program specifically needs a strong feedback culture?

3:05:56 pm – Isaac King:
Well, so I’m actually not sure that the Judge program needs a feedback culture more than other communities do. But I think that having a strong feedback culture, allows us to be much better at running tournaments and everything else that we’re trying to do in the same would be true for other communities too. It’s just that in the case of the judge program, we have chosen to make that one of our focuses, one of the paths we use to Become better at judging.

3:06:29 pm – Samantha Harr:
Yeah, I think I feel like any any pursuit that requires a really, really substantial amount of what people refer to as soft skills. I don’t know if there’s a better term for that, but the more sort of nuance in person to person customer service, he kind of skills you have in a job, I think feedback becomes just all the more valuable because there are certain things, you can’t just put into writing in a guide for someone to follow along with, you know, there’s certain things that in just don’t make sense and module form that I think we need to For each other on. And I think that that’s part of feedback culture that I think judges really really needs specifically personally,

3:07:07 pm – Isaac King:
I agree. And I think even for even for And I think even for even for I agree, I agree. And I think even for even for more technical aspects of things, I think there’s still a lot of value in being able to ask for feedback, especially around learning styles. So if you look at something like, you know, something very technical like learning a programming language. Sure. You can have a guide that just explains how everything works, but it can still be really useful to have a mentor to whom you can ask questions if you don’t understand. And why something works the way it does or if you don’t understand why the guide is telling you to do something this way rather than a different way, being able to get answers to those questions can be really useful even in a more technical. Technical skill heavy field. So, one of the things that you That I think you were asking about is. What is the value of a feedback culture to the Judge program over just kind of individual feedback. Is that Kind of what you’re asking there.

3:08:06 pm – Samantha Harr:
Yeah, absolutely. I think feedback feedback culture as opposed to just lucy-goosey feedback or are very different things and I think the culture aspect matters to me personally. Anyway,

3:08:16 pm – Isaac King:
Sure. Yeah, so that I think they’re both. I mean, they’re both very good and I think that the primary benefit of feedback culture is just that it incentivizes people to give more feedback, it makes them more comfortable, in a non feedback culture, it can be really hard to find people, whom you can either ask for feedback or get feedback from And if we have a healthy culture, it makes it just much easier to get that feedback. and with regards specifically to, Improving one of the. One of the kind of traps of. Not being able to get feedback is when there’s something that you don’t know that you’re doing poorly because if you do know that you you need to improve it something it’s usually not too hard to do something like that. You can ask people for feedback explicitly or you can look up. Ways to improve or do something like that. But when it’s something that you don’t know a concept called nighty and uncertainty, you just you don’t even know what it is that you need to look into then that’s where feedback from other people and telling us. What they noticed is really important because it can bring something to our attention that we didn’t even know we needed to be thinking about

3:09:30 pm – Samantha Harr:
Absolutely, there are plenty of things that I don’t even know that. I don’t know, you know, and that’s part of becoming a better. A better judge, a better person, a better, anything I try to pursue doing. I think that’s true of probably of most people. I think that the culture specific aspect Kind of provides a framework. A structure to where If we, if we have certain things, we, we just all agree as a community to do by habit and just by common practice. it takes a little bit of the personal away which can be good for something like feedback because if we have a process, we go through. A sort of standardized process we go through. If it can feel less like Isaac’s attacking me and more like, Oh it’s the end of the event, this is when people give feedback, this is what I should expect. You know, so I think having sort of a cultural practices ingrained can take some of the personal hurt feelings out of it that can sometimes arise, especially, as newer, judges are sort of getting used to stepping into these roles. I think that there’s a lot of value in that.

3:10:34 pm – Isaac King:
That’s a really good point. That’s a really good point. One of the kind of failure cases of feedback, is when it feels like somebody is out to get You and when you’re in a culture where feedback is common and you get it from lots of people, it makes it more clear that that’s not what’s happening. That’s that’s a really good point.

3:10:49 pm – Samantha Harr:
Yeah, absolutely. So, Isaac, where are some points in feedback, feedback culture and the judge community right now that you think there’s some room for improvement? What could we be doing better?

3:11:00 pm – Isaac King:
so,

3:11:00 pm – Samantha Harr:
Do you think

3:11:01 pm – Isaac King:
Sure. So I think like the judge community compared to other communities, I’ve been part of is is so much better than So many other communities already, but that doesn’t mean that we can’t improve and I think one of the So one of the main things I would say is just doing it more. I think feedback is one of those things that it’s very uncontroversial in the program, people recommend it all the time. Everyone agrees goes Yeah that’s a great idea and then it doesn’t actually happen all that much. So writing reviews taught giving people feedback for conferences asking for feedback on things before you do them. If you’re doing a presentation stuff like that everyone agrees they’re good ideas but from actually looking at the community I actually don’t see it happening all that much. And so I think basically just the the actually do it part is it would really help a lot in that in that aspect.

3:11:53 pm – Samantha Harr:
I owe 1000%, agree. I’m glad you brought that up. I think that something One of the reasons I feel so passionate about this specific topic, is because I think judges in theory, love the idea of feedback culture. But then when it starts applying to them, they start getting their feelings hurt. And that’s not everybody. Of course, that’s, you know, everybody’s mileage on that varies. But I think by, I think, we could do a better job of identifying what, our feedback culture is supposed to look like in practice and then following that In such a way, that it makes it easier for people to sort of digest and get used to when they’re getting started. Like, at this point, people can say basically anything they want to me and it My I no longer have feelings to hurt, but you know, when I first started I, you know, everything was crushing but it took practice at that, right? Like, and it wasn’t anybody’s fault, like, people were doing the right things, by telling me what I needed to improve on. But without practice, and without knowing what feedback culture in this situation, looked like I didn’t know and it hurt my feelings. So you know, I think we can help each other. Ease into this sort of idea of having to listen to critique. If we have more set, standards for what we want that to look like in practice.

3:13:13 pm – Isaac King:
Sure. Yeah. And like, as an example, the i I made a post yesterday asking people about shadowing how it happens at events and you know, everyone was Everyone on the post was like, Yeah, this is great. I do it all the time. And the reason I made that post was because I was at an event last weekend and I noticed that a lot of people were not shadowing, and what I think is it’s not the the nervousness or, you know, feeling feeling like you feeling bad, because you get critical feedback. That’s definitely a big factor, but I thought the whole thing lots of times, it’s just not something people are thinking about. I think lots of times people, see a judge call, they just think themselves. Oh, okay, that’s handled. It’s fine. And then that, that’s kind of the extent of it. It’s not that they’re, you know, worried about worried about getting negative feedback or worried about giving negative feedback. It’s just, it doesn’t come to mind. And I think that’s one of the things that having a thriving future feedback, culture can really help with is just having that be normalized, having that be something that people think about. Frequently.

3:14:15 pm – Samantha Harr:
That’s a great. That’s a great point. I love shadowing calls. I love being shadowed on calls like I mean, frankly, I’m nosy, I just want to know what people are up to. I want to know what they’re up to over there. I want to see what the players are doing. I’m nosy, but I also enjoy having people. Shadow calls with me because There’s a lot of stuff. I know like I said before, I know that I don’t know. So I would rather have, you know, if possible I would rather have someone there with me to like, talk to if I need to rather than have, you know, because It sucks if if I need to go ask somebody something in the nearest judge is halfway across the convention hall, you know? Like that’s that’s not a good experience for me. It’s super not good experience for the players. So Just I, I like working together. I think that’s something that brings us together as a community. Even if even if everything goes smoothly the whole time and there isn’t really any feedback to be had, I think it brings us together and I think it’s just a super good practice to get into so I I hope that’s something that we can. Keep going with with newer judges, as we start getting back into events with and with judges who have not gotten a chance to be out on the floor yet, I really want people to shadow calls and be there for each other.

3:15:26 pm – Isaac King:
Yeah, absolutely.

3:15:27 pm – Samantha Harr:
literally, So what are Isaac, what are your thoughts on anonymous feedback? That’s, that’s a topic that I see come up a lot and I have plenty of opinions on. What are, what are your opinions on anonymous feedback?

3:15:38 pm – Isaac King:
Yeah, so anonymous feedback is interesting. It’s a bit more of a special case since obviously, you can’t really do that in person at an event. So it’s it’s generally biggest place that comes up is conferences conference feedback form. Some organizers will do completely anonymous feedback, some will do completely unanonymous feedback, some will do partially where the conference organizer gets to see who submitted the feedback, but the presenters don’t, and then it comes with some other places as well. and the lots of people have strong feelings about anonymous feedback and the biggest general argument that I see against allowing, it is that it gives people an avenue to be mean, That the recipient can feel really bad about receiving receiving that feedback, which is, which is certainly true. And I have I have seen that happen. And I think that’s definitely a valid concern to think about. But there’s also, there’s also a lot of benefits of anonymous feedback especially for something like conference presentations because the When you have some presenting any conference, usually, that’s going to be a more experienced judge. And so somebody might be nervous about telling them something telling them, they disagreed with that presentation because you know, they’re, they’re an important person. And it doesn’t, it doesn’t even matter if it’s. True. That there are You know people who get defensive or that there’s a you know a click or anything like that in the higher levels of the judge program, what matters is that perception? And it might turn people off from sharing that information. And so, the having that option for anonymous feedback, allows those people to feel more comfortable, giving that feedback and I’ve gotten a lot of really useful feedback anonymously on my presentations that I suspect people would not have given if their names had to be attached because it was either very critical or it was about, you know, something controversial or something like that. I think the kind of the biggest thing to remember with regards to anonymous feedback is that if you basically it doesn’t preventing anonymous feedback, doesn’t actually Make people feel better about other people. All it means is that you don’t have access to that information. And so if, if I’m considering whether or not to accept anonymous feedback, you know, if somebody really doesn’t like me, Not accepting anonymous feedback doesn’t make that person. Start liking me. All that means is that I won’t find out and I think it’s it’s more useful for me to know about that. And And so I always try to encourage people to allow anonymous feedback for themselves. Not necessarily for other people. But if I’m presenting at a conference I ask for the feedback form to have an anonymous option and I also have a anonymous feedback link on my you know my website my social media pages stuff like that just so that I can you know somebody wants to tell me something. I want to be able to know what that thing is.

3:18:39 pm – Samantha Harr:
Those are actually great points. I have I have. I have slightly different opinions, but I don’t disagree. I guess I I hate anonymous feedback but not for not, maybe not for the reasons. You might expect. I think that it solves and I think anonymous feedback solves one problem, well, sort of either creating or contributing to another um, For like I I definitely want to know what I did wrong. What I could improve on, of course. That doesn’t need a name attached to it. If I did something that could have been improved. Who’s telling me that really doesn’t matter? and I think that there’s a lot of benefit to anonymous feedback when you start getting like you said into things that get kind of touchy like Maybe, maybe there’s some perception of clickiness or of bias or or things that retribution in some way that could come back on somebody. And I I don’t ever want anybody to feel like they’re making themselves vulnerable to backlash for making. Points that they are making in. Good faith. I think one of the problems I have with feet with anonymous feedback is that I look at this and wonder Why aren’t people braver than this? Like if you if I get a piece of anonymous feedback, like you were kind of quiet through your presentation like that’s good feedback. But that also makes me really concerned for like, Am I that scary? Are you that scared? Like I I don’t know, it makes me wary of like, are we? Are we creating brave enough judges are we creating a judge community? That’s, that’s self-assured. Brave and bold because, you know, if you don’t have the confidence to Provide me a really like, pretty neutral piece of feedback. You know, players are gonna eat you alive. and I don’t want them to, you know, so and I think one of the best ways to practice getting braver and stronger, in the face of even mild confrontation is Is to just do it and, you know, do it in a safe environment. I’m never gonna be angry at you for providing me feedback, as long as I know you’re not trying to be irritating like, you know, I don’t know so which isn’t really relevant to feedback culture I guess you know, feedback culture that that’s an entirely separate issue. So as far as feedback culture goes, I think you’re probably right that it’s probably better to allow anonymous feedback than not to

3:21:04 pm – Isaac King:
Well, so that’s actually really interesting point that I hadn’t considered. I think you’re kind of getting at do. We want to be training people to Rely on anonymity. To avoid confrontation. And, you know, I think the answer is no and That’s interesting point and I think that there’s definitely value in kind of pushing people lightly towards towards that polite respectful confrontation. I think it might be more effective to do that once they’ve had the opportunity to get to know the judging question. So because if I like, if I don’t know somebody, I have no idea how they’re gonna react to my feedback, then that might not be the best place to practice the confrontation. Whereas, if especially if they’re, you know, like somebody who is much more experienced than me, who has more clout in the judge program than me, whereas once I get to know them, They might still be intimidating but that might be a little bit of a better place to practice that the practice that scale but I’m not sure that’s that’s actually really interesting. Really interesting point.

3:22:09 pm – Samantha Harr:
I feel like truly like the steak, I mean, with stuff like feedback just between judges and especially in more private settings like conferences or whatever. As opposed in front of a whole floor of other judges and players like The stakes have truly never been lower. Like there’s no feedback anybody’s gonna give me that’s gonna result in a knife fight in the parking lot. So like Just tell me, right? I don’t know. I don’t know. Maybe, I’m being too too hard on people.

3:22:34 pm – Isaac King:
No, no, I don’t think at all. I do think it might be a matter of, you know, yourself very well. And, you know, that you’re not going to get upset about someone’s feedback, but other people don’t necessarily know that about you, if they, if they don’t know you. And so, I think even if they’re wrong, we it can still be reasonable for them to make that to have that concern. If they haven’t interacted with you before and don’t know that about you. One thing that you mentioned.

3:22:58 pm – Samantha Harr:
Good point.

3:23:00 pm – Isaac King:
Oh sorry. Go ahead.

3:23:00 pm – Samantha Harr:
No, I just say, good point. Good point.

3:23:02 pm – Isaac King:
One thing that you mentioned earlier about people, lots of people giving anonymous feedback for things that don’t seem like they needed to be anonymous. Like, you were very quiet. I think a lot of that is just the kind of the default setting. Lots of people I think don’t have a strong feeling about whether they’re anonymous or not. And so, what I’ve noticed is that, if the, you know, if the feedback form for a conference is anonymous, by default, people just won’t bother typing in their name but it’s not that they want to be anonymous, it’s just well, this is the default and so

3:23:33 pm – Samantha Harr:
They just didn’t bother clicking.

3:23:33 pm – Isaac King:
if you

3:23:34 pm – Samantha Harr:
The checking the box. So that makes sense.

3:23:36 pm – Isaac King:
Yeah. And so and so I always make I always make non-endonymity the default and then if someone wants to be anonymous there’s just a little checkbox they can check and it makes them anonymous and then I think that way it’s a conscious decision on their part

3:23:49 pm – Samantha Harr:
I think I like that way better. I think that, that sort of solves that that solves some of the like hesitations I have about Anonymity and stuff. So as long as it becomes a conscious choice, like that gives me more information about the anonymity of it, I guess. Um, so Isaac. How how do you think that judge community leaders? Should be incentivizing constructive feedback.

3:24:15 pm – Isaac King:
Yeah. So the biggest example, I think is just lead by example, right? Give people constructive feedback and and more importantly you know, be receptive to feedback and do so visibly. So I really like to encourage people to not just not just accept feedback and act on it. But to also to kind of publicize that information you know if if somebody gives me really good feedback, I might you know, make a Facebook post about it and say, Hey I got this really good feedback from such and such I really appreciate it or if somebody makes a mistake You know, publicize that there’s a lot of. So for example, There’s a, there’s a Youtuber known called Tom Scott, who just does you know, educational YouTube videos. And one of the things that I really respect about them is that on their website they have a list of all of the mistakes that they’ve ever made in any other videos and that does a really good job of instilling trust in in them that they’re trying to do a good job that they’re not going to try and hide mistakes that they made that they’re not going to Try and, you know, make thing make themselves look better at the cost of the educational content of their videos, and So, I encourage lots of people to do that. Just always, you know, if you make a mistake don’t don’t, you know, Self-flagellate too much but just make it clear that you’re aware of the mistake. You’re you’re taking efforts, you’re taking steps to correct that mistake and it’s really gonna help people trust you a lot more and it’s gonna help that community. If lots of people do that and people in leadership positions, do that. It’s gonna make it much easier for people in that community to give them feedback and to give each other feedback.

3:25:55 pm – Samantha Harr:
Yeah, absolutely, I found it when I early in my judging journey. I was so focused on. Looking perfect to others that I guess. Like, you know, I wanted others to see me as perfect and have has done no wrong and all of this. But like, when I looked at the leaders of the community that I most trusted and respected, none of them were perfect. I found that I actively did not trust the people that never seemed to accept any negative feedback. Always had some excuse. Pretended, like it never happened. Like And I that’s not real, right? Like that’s not real and I I think there was some amount of hesitation of like, Oh, if I if I if people know that I’ve made this mistake and I’m never going to get hired again, I’m never I’ll never judge in this town again. And the fact of the matter is, I have messed up plenty. And yet people still hire me. And I think probably the reason is a I’m a lot of fun. But b, I do try to learn from my mistakes, you know? And I, I think that that’s kind of the key is like you said his owning those Owning those mistakes helping and helping others, learn from them. You know, if I learn something I’ve never run into before. I want to help other judges know that too and that takes some vulnerability to be like, man. I sure punted this real bad but here’s what I learned friends, you know? So, I agree.

3:27:19 pm – Isaac King:
When it also shows confidence, right? It shows that you are comfortable enough with your social standing that you don’t need to worry. That people are going to look down on you for having made a certain mistake, or have it for having me one mistake, right? It shows that you’re comfortable with your, your own skills. Your own abilities, and you’re comfortable with how people view you in the Entity, and you’re not. Not super nervous about it or not. Creating the word but yeah.

3:27:46 pm – Samantha Harr:
Yeah, absolutely. It it takes some time to I guess in part of part of what led me to gaining confidence is just repetition, just going around to this and realizing that people do still like me, people do still want me around even when I punt the occasional whatever. As long as I don’t, keep punting the same calls over and over and over again. you know, you do actually have to learn from the mistakes but, you know, I I think that yeah, leading by example, really helps a lot here because it it builds confidence in each other and it helps people build confidence in themselves to go out and do their best. you know, no matter how that kind of

3:28:21 pm – Isaac King:
That too. But

3:28:22 pm – Samantha Harr:
turns out

3:28:23 pm – Isaac King:
Yeah, so one other thing that I think helps is if you kind of nudge people towards it but don’t push them too hard. Because so what I mean, by pushing too hard, is for example, some conferences there will be required feedback for every presentation and what usually happens at those conferences is some people will give, you know, useful constructive feedback but most of them will just say something like, Great presentation. Good job. Really enjoyed it, something like that. And I mean, I can be really validating to receive. It’s always great to see that people enjoy my presentation but it’s not super useful. And when I’ve received 1,000 of those, it loses a little bit of its impact. There’s an effect, there’s just like psychological effects called motivational crowding out, which is that when you give people, when people have an intrinsic motivation to do something and then you also give them an external motivation, that tends to kind of crowd out the the internal motivation and make them less interested in doing the thing. so, as an example, the traditional example is, if somebody’s doing something like for a hobby that they love, and they’re just doing it because they enjoy it or to help out their community and then you offer to pay them money on top of that, you know, rationally, This is just additional motivation but it turns out that If the amount of money you’re offering them is not that big. Then they’re gonna start only focusing on the money and saying, Wait a minute, that’s not that much. I should be getting more for this and they’ll kind of lose that intrinsic motivation. And we want to be a little careful with that. And with pushing people too hard into things. So at one of my feedback presentations iteration conference, I offered, I ran a little contest and I offered to give people one of my judge promos for whoever the best, whatever, the best piece of feedback. I got was for that conference and I was curious to see how that would go and it turned out that the feedback I got for that conference was actually much worse than the normal feedback I got and

3:30:22 pm – Samantha Harr:
if worst feedback I’ve ever seen in my life,

3:30:25 pm – Isaac King:
So, I think, I think that might have been part of it. I think people were like, well, normally I give feedback because I care about this person, I want to help them, but in this case, it’s oh, I’m being offered a promo. I don’t care that much about the promo, so I’m not gonna write good feedback. So we want to be a little careful about that.

3:30:39 pm – Samantha Harr:
That’s so funny.

3:30:40 pm – Isaac King:
But little nudges can help and can be really effective at the model that I like for my conferences is I ask people to pick one of the presentations that they went to, and they can choose which one and then to write some, you know, real constructive feedback about it. And I do enforce that, if they just say, great presentation, good job. I don’t accept that and they don’t accept promos for that. And that’s actually worked incredibly well. I’ve gotten such good feedback for everybody and It’s it’s I think it’s it’s a really great way to do things. similarly, at events if you’re like head judging an event, I think Just kind of at in the beginning of the morning just mentioning to people that shadowing is important or one of the things that I’ve done at some events I’ve had judged is I’ve buddied up all the judges on my team And I said, Hey this is your buddy for the day, shadow each other’s calls. And at the end of the day, instead of having a big team debrief or a big like whole staff debrief, just find your find, your partner, talk to them about how the day went, give them some more personal feedback and even if it’s not required, just that sort of little nudge towards the towards that I think can really help incentivize that that behavior

3:31:49 pm – Samantha Harr:
Yeah, absolutely. Not. Nudging people towards a discovering things that they should be looking at or finding out about their, their own presentations. Their own actions is is a challenge and that’s a good, that’s a good mentorship. Skill is gently nudging people towards doing. better behaviors more, more I guess. Efficient behaviors. That’s a good point. I like that. Um, so Isaac, how do you personally prefer to give feedback and how do you personally prefer to receive feedback? You as you personally.

3:32:25 pm – Isaac King:
Sure. Yeah, so it definitely met it. Definitely differs from person to person Different people have different styles of giving feedback and they’re going to be different ways. Different people will have better ways to approach them about feedback for me personally, So, for giving feedback, I generally try and I generally just I don’t seek people out for feedback instead. I just I just keep an eye out if I see anything that seems worth letting people know about either something they did really well that I was impressed by or something that I think they could have improved upon. I’ll just make a note of that. and then, Talk to them about it later and generally I’ll just approach them. I’ll say, Hey, are you interested in discussing this thing? That happened? And then if they say no, then that’s fine. We don’t have to talk about it. If they say yes, then I can give them the feedback more directly. And I I like I like asking just because if somebody is not currently in the mood to hear it then they’re not going to be receptive to it anyway and so just giving it directly. It is not going to accomplish what I really wanted to accomplish. And so I want to ask there as for receiving feedback. normally, I love

3:34:53 pm – Samantha Harr:
Some of that sweet. Sweet feedback.

3:34:56 pm – Isaac King:
Yeah. And so five kind of finding the people who will actually go through and tell me everything that could be improved in my my article or my presentation like the, you know, the typos or this section is explained poorly can be rewritten this way or I think this order would be better if you switch these around or Here’s this thing that you didn’t mention at all. But I think you should mention finding somebody who’s able and willing to include all of that stuff is extremely useful. And so I try to, I try to seek those people out and ask them in particular, for stuff like that.

3:35:29 pm – Samantha Harr:
Absolutely. Yeah. Um I think, when I am. When I’m trying to give feedback, I try to sort of first analyze who I am to be giving the feedback, which is not to say, like, Oh, who are you to be giving feedback more, like, How am I approaching this, right? Because, like, the way I give someone feedback. If I see them, if I see myself as a mentor to them is different than how I give feedback, if I see myself as a peer to them in the specific situation, Or as as they’re mentee in the specific situation in or a number of other factors, I try to figure out the angle. I’m approaching it from first. And then sort of. go about it from there, and I I don’t like to give feedback on the floor because I I feel like people are so busy and trying to do so much at once that that’s just challenging to take in. I tend to make a lot of notes and then go over things with people later if they’re willing to as far as receiving feedback, i I in the reason I probably do that is because I when receiving feedback, I tend to prefer doing it after the event, and there there, definitely some people whose feedback, I find more valuable than others and not because Necessarily more or less experts on whatever. It’s just some people are very good at giving feedback you know and it is its own skill set.

3:36:53 pm – Isaac King:
Yeah, I think one thing to keep in mind when you’re deciding, when to give feedback is when is it going to matter? So, if somebody If somebody is taking a judge call at an event and it’s something, you know, some some rules question. Their answers incorrect or maybe they explained it poorly. Well, if it’s some corner case it’s not going to clap again then that’s fine to talk about afterwards. Whereas if it’s something that’s likely to come up more times today. before it comes up again because I I I want to talk to them about that want to make sure that you know the the problem doesn’t keep happening and impact more people.

3:37:34 pm – Samantha Harr:
Yeah. Absolutely. Some things are absolutely mission critical and need to be talked about right now. That’s that’s important to note Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Some things are absolutely mission critical and need to be talked about right now. That’s that’s important to note Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. critical and need to be talked about right now. That’s that’s important to note

3:37:49 pm – Isaac King:
yeah, and I had I had a I was

3:37:49 pm – Samantha Harr:
Um,

3:37:52 pm – Isaac King:
And I had I had a I was evaluating an L2 candidate at once and they, they gave me a really important piece of feedback that I really appreciated, which was that. So I was, I was talking to them. I was shattering them on calls. I was also just chatting with them on the floor. Also chatting with them over messenger, just gathering a lot of information about them to write up my either, my recommendation or my non recommendation review, and one of the things that they mentioned to me was that it kind of felt like in a couple situations. I saw them do something suboptimally and then I wrote it down but I didn’t tell them about it at the time and I only told them about it at the end in my full review or when we were debriefing at the end of the day and it kind of felt like I was letting them fail and which they didn’t really really like.

3:38:41 pm – Samantha Harr:
I want.

3:38:43 pm – Isaac King:
And And that was really important

3:38:43 pm – Samantha Harr:
Good point.

3:38:45 pm – Isaac King:
feedback for me because I I had just been, I had been kind of laser focusing and on the evaluate part I was feedback for me because I I had just been I had been kind of laser focusing and on the evaluate part I was writing down everything they did, here’s everything they did. Well, here’s everything, you did clearly taking extensive notes, but then I wasn’t actually talking to them about it and there was a tournament going on. And there’s also a big learning opportunity here and it’s much easier to learn something. When you have a chance to practice it, then when it’s just told to you and you have to try and memorize it for your next event. And so I really should have been giving them not all of that feedback, but some of it right away and That they, they told me that at the end and I that was something that I think was really important for me to hear and I I was really glad that they had noticed that and brought it up.

3:39:25 pm – Samantha Harr:
Yeah. Absolutely. You know, if, if I’m ever doing something something wrong that is gonna affect the rest of the Yeah. You know, if, if I’m ever doing You know, if, if I’m ever doing something something wrong that is gonna affect the rest of the tournament or like, I could, I could More generalized feedback, or like, I guess strategy for next time type of feedback. Because yeah, if I if I’m putting around all day doing something goofy and you wait to the end to tell me, I can see being like, man, you could have told me that four hours ago.

3:39:51 pm – Isaac King:
And also it can just be hard to remember, you know, I’ll remember a

3:39:53 pm – Samantha Harr:
Right.

3:39:55 pm – Isaac King:
judge call. I took a couple minutes later but if somebody comes to me that evening or the next day and they say Hey have feedback about this call. I’m gonna be like Okay, what happened? I’ve taken 40 Judge calls today like

3:40:03 pm – Samantha Harr:
Oh that. Yeah that could have been a century ago may as well have been last millennium. Yeah.

3:40:07 pm – Isaac King:
And so for me personally, receiving feedback, I prefer to receive it right afterwards. Just because that’s when my memory’s most fresh and I can know all the details and I can have I think I’m more useful discussion about what happened. Whereas if it’s later I have to be like, Okay, can you can you tell me the details? And then now, I’ll have this discussion based on the details that you told me rather than my memories which is, I think a little less useful

3:40:27 pm – Samantha Harr:
Very good point. I think one of my sort of biggest pet peeves as a recipient of feedback. Is feedback. That is so obvious. It doesn’t seem necessary and here’s what I mean by this. There is nothing that gets under my skin worse than like let’s say for example Let’s say I’m doing deck checks and I swoop a deck. I pick it up and run off and I drop it right like God forbid. If I at the end of the tournament or whenever get feedback that’s like next time, be sure not to drop decks. I’m gonna find you. Know, I know that. There’s no reason for you to tell me, you know, I know that and like getting feedback like that. Irks me so bad that that might cause a fight.

3:41:12 pm – Isaac King:
Yeah. Yeah, you definitely won’t don’t want

3:41:13 pm – Samantha Harr:
I don’t know.

3:41:13 pm – Isaac King:
to be kind of piling on about something. If somebody is already aware of whatever you’re giving them feedback about then your feedback isn’t accomplishing anything, right? The point to feedback is to notify people about things that they did either well or poorly and tell them you know your impressions and if they already have that information then you talking to them isn’t accomplishing anything. Now there might be a little bit of

3:41:33 pm – Samantha Harr:
Right.

3:41:34 pm – Isaac King:
value long-term to putting something like that in a review just so that they can refer back to it in the future but at least for, you know, immediate feedback.

3:41:40 pm – Samantha Harr:
Sure.

3:41:41 pm – Isaac King:
feedback. Yeah, that’s not not super useful.

3:41:46 pm – Samantha Harr:
I’d really that. Really I just wanted to come in here and talk to you about this so that I could tell everybody to quit giving obvious feedback. I’d really that. come in here and talk to you about this so that I could tell everybody to quit giving obvious feedback. I really that really I just wanted to come in here and talk to you about this so that I could tell everybody to quit giving obvious feedback.

3:41:51 pm – Isaac King:
Yeah, yeah, like okay. So you’re

3:41:52 pm – Samantha Harr:
It’s all been a setup.

3:41:53 pm – Isaac King:
You know, your your rules question was wrong and it like, you know, damage the players game and like the head judge found out about this and like pulled you into correct? It like you already know that, right? Don’t make them feel any worse about

3:42:04 pm – Samantha Harr:
Right.

3:42:04 pm – Isaac King:
that.

3:42:04 pm – Samantha Harr:
I was there for that. I was there for all that, so, like,

3:42:06 pm – Isaac King:
Right.

3:42:08 pm – Samantha Harr:
Um so Isaac. Do you personally do you ever follow up with folks who you’ve given feedback to to kind of check in and see if they’ve taken it or learned anything later about it?

3:42:19 pm – Isaac King:
Me personally, not usually because most of the feedback that I give is one time interactions. I, I do have some like longer term mentor, mentee relationships with a ones and all zero is looking for endorsements or recommendations. And so in those cases I might follow up and say, You know, hey how’s this thing going? I suggested you work on this. Do you feel like you’ve gotten better? Is this working for you? Etc. But most of the feedback I give is at events or to presenters where there isn’t, you know, a long-term mentorship relationship and so I think it would be a little weird to follow up because it it It signals that there’s an expectation from me in some ways and

3:43:01 pm – Samantha Harr:
Hmm.

3:43:03 pm – Isaac King:
that might be perceived poorly or at least weirdly. And so generally my approach to feedback is, You know, I give somebody else this information and then it’s their choice. What they want to do with it. It’s not my responsibility to follow them around and make sure that they’re acting on my feedback. If if they want to they can. If they don’t want you, they can’t. If they have any questions, they’re welcome to reach out. And I mean, I always say that in my feedback, like, Please, please reach out, if you have questions, but if they don’t want to talk about it further, I don’t kind of want to, I don’t want to push that on them.

3:43:31 pm – Samantha Harr:
Don’t want to chase them down.

3:43:32 pm – Isaac King:
Yeah.

3:43:34 pm – Samantha Harr:
It makes a ton of sense. Yeah. And I I think I tend to be sort of the same way, if I’m in a situation where I am purposely mentoring someone and they Clearly actively want my like ongoing feedback. I’ll definitely give it to him, but but yeah, if I give someone feedback and I, I don’t think it makes sense to kind of Hassle them about it forever because yeah, maybe they don’t like my feedback and that’s okay. They have that, right? It is what it is, but Yeah, I think that I when somebody, when a judge does something consistently that, I think they should improve on. And they later do improve on it, though. I noticed in a heartbeat and that is the best feeling. Like it is the best best feeling to see other people improving at things that, you know, they struggled with it first, and I want everyone to sort of walk away with that feeling when they, when they can grab it is us all making each other better just by helping each other. I think that’s a good thing.

3:44:30 pm – Isaac King:
Yeah, absolutely. And one thing to keep in mind with regards to seeing a seeing whether other people are acting on our feedback is that, you know, we don’t have full information about What they’re doing, what they’re thinking, what feedback they’ve gotten? And so it’s possible that they did act on it but it’s just not obvious or It’s possible that there’s a very good reason why they’re not acting on it. For example, one of the most common pieces of feedback I get for my presentations is Hey your presentations are too interactive like I want to just be able to kind of sit back. Relax take in what you’re saying and I don’t like being pulled into these activities.

3:45:08 pm – Samantha Harr:
I bet you do.

3:45:11 pm – Isaac King:
And one of the other, most common

3:45:11 pm – Samantha Harr:
Up.

3:45:12 pm – Isaac King:
pieces of feedback I get, is your presentations aren’t interactive enough? They’re just like a dry lecture and they’re kind of disengaging. And I just, I like more of the activities and I want to be involved more

3:45:24 pm – Samantha Harr:
Well.

3:45:25 pm – Isaac King:
And yeah, like I can’t, I’m not gonna be able to make both of these people happy. They just, they want different things out of my presentations. And so I have to pick where at what audience, I want my presentations to be aimed towards and they’re going to be people who don’t like that. And that’s, that’s just how it is. And so that doesn’t mean that I’m ignoring the feedback, but it does mean that I have chosen not to act on it for a good reason. And it’s, it’s very easy for that to not be visible to them. If they don’t realize that other people feel differently to them, they might think, Oh, I just didn’t organize my feedback, but that’s just because they can’t, you know, they can’t see everything. They can’t see all the relevant factors and so it’s really important to keep that in mind. If it seems like somebody else is not acting on our feedback. Keep in mind that, you know, we don’t know everything about them. And I mean, if you want to know, you can always do that. You can say, Hey like if you have a good relationship with them, you can say Hey like I’m just curious like you know, did you appreciate the feedback or How is that going you know, what was your, what were your thoughts about it?

3:46:19 pm – Samantha Harr:
Absolutely. And that’s a funny, you mentioned that. That’s something I run into a lot in my communications job here at Judge Academy where I I have before in the same day gotten emails from like two completely. different judges saying, like, I hate this thing. Everybody in the judge program hates this thing and another email being like, I love this thing. Everybody in the judge program loves this thing and it’s like I can tell you two didn’t talk, but like, You know, it no matter which way, no matter what I choose someone’s gonna be mad. So, you know, it’s it’s not that we aren’t listening to you. It’s that sometimes choices have to be made for reasons that you don’t, you’re privy to. And that’s true of any kind of feedback, any kind of feedback culture.

3:47:03 pm – Isaac King:
Yeah. Yeah, people people tend to assume that other people are more similar to them than is, is true. And so, it feels like, Oh, this is just obvious or everybody feels this way, when in fact, no, like other people are actually very different from you. And in some ways,

3:47:16 pm – Samantha Harr:
Absolutely way more. I way more than I think I ever realized, even even myself before starting this job. Um, so Isaac, what do you think about feedback, quantity compared to feedback quality and is there such a thing as too much feedback?

3:47:31 pm – Isaac King:
So I mean theoretically yes if you’re just spamming somebody with with hundreds of lines of feedback then maybe that’s too much but in any realistic situation no I think that lots of the Most useful feedback that I get is things that people might be worried about dismissing as unimportant or trivial like a typo or a poor wording choice. I find those really useful and it’s hard to get that feedback because lots of people feel like it’s too unimportant to be worth bringing up. and somebody that I really respect a lot if there is to feedback, is Joe Steet, who is a now, level three from the northeast, and He writes lots of reviews or at least he did before covid and the reviews are not super in-depth. They’re usually just a paragraph or two talking about some interaction that we had. Just an observation, Here’s how it went and They’re not, you know, they’re not the world’s best reviews I’ve ever received, But he writes a lot of them. There is a contest between two regions, I think the Northeast region and the mid-Atlantic region, There was a contest to see who, which region as a whole will write the most reviews and the summing up blog post, was a pie chart that showed you know, Okay. Here’s the, the North Atlantic or, here’s sorry, here’s the Northeast. Here’s the mid-Atlantic. And then here’s Joseph. And Joe, like alone, just beat the other two regions.

3:48:55 pm – Samantha Harr:
Oh, I remember. Oh, I remember.

3:48:58 pm – Isaac King:
Yeah. in this regard, quantity kind of this regard, quantity kind of Yeah. And and so, you know, quantity in this regard, quantity kind of is its own quality because especially given that you don’t know which pieces of feedback are going to be useful to the recipient. It’s a lot better to write as much as possible because that’s more opportunities for your feedback to be useful to people.

3:49:18 pm – Samantha Harr:
Yeah, absolutely I think quantity is is just fine so long as you aren’t sacrificing quality, you know, for it and that threshold is different for everyone, I’m sure.

3:49:28 pm – Isaac King:
Yeah, well certainly don’t sacrifice quality.

3:49:30 pm – Samantha Harr:
Of course.

3:49:31 pm – Isaac King:
between writing you know two pieces of less useful feedback versus one piece of more useful feedback then probably go for the the one piece of more useful feedback but if the choice is just between right this feedback or don’t write this feedback, then the correct answer is Definitely, right? The feedback. Never be afraid that you are giving too much feedback.

3:49:47 pm – Samantha Harr:
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And how do you think that written feedback, sort of falls within this whole feedback culture ecosystem? Because that’s something that I feel like, obviously before covid, I ran into a whole lot. And now during covid I don’t really know like What do you think that kind of goes from here?

3:50:07 pm – Isaac King:
Yeah. So like reviews stuff like that is they’re an important piece and I think they kind of serve a different purpose. It’s the most useful feedback is generally feedback that you can actually discuss with somebody rather than just giving them the feedback and walking them away. It’s a lot more useful to talk about things. Because especially especially in a case of when it’s more peer-to-peer feedback rather than men try to mentee feedback. If it’s mentor to mentee feedback, it might just be like, You know, Hey you got this thing wrong. Here’s a better way to do it. Here’s why? And the mentee doesn’t have any questions, it all makes sense to them, but when it’s peer-to-peer feedback, usually, there’s a legitimate disagreement between two people and just giving the feedback doesn’t necessarily solve the problem. Because if I don’t understand why you feel the way you do, then that’s not going to be enough for me to update how I’m doing things. And so being able to have that discussion is leads to the feedback of being a lot more useful and leads to often. Both people being able to learn something from that interaction and that’s a lot easier to do in person than it is in a review reviews. Do have comments on them and so you can do it in a review but it’s not really as encouraged and so I really like in-person feedback for that reason. However, reviews are useful for having a record of how things are going. So I can look back at reviews that I got and reviews that I wrote many years ago and see, have I improved at these things and see, Have I not improved at these things? What is changed and having having that clear record of the feedback can be a long-term improvement.

3:51:53 pm – Samantha Harr:
Yeah, absolutely. I think that the conversation I think that using written feedback as a way to prompt conversation is something I find really valuable because I mean it’s valuable either way. Like if someone has great feedback and they drop it on, my doorstep and run, it’s still good feedback but if I can further discuss it with them and sort of get into like the nitty-gritty of it, it helps me. Helps me get better faster. Um, so yeah, I think that that’s, I think that that’s absolutely true. I like writing reviews, personally, but I’m good at just writing forever, whether people want me to or not? Um, so

3:52:29 pm – Isaac King:
Me too. Me too.

3:52:30 pm – Samantha Harr:
We have that in common Isaac.

3:52:33 pm – Isaac King:
And often when I write reviews people

3:52:33 pm – Samantha Harr:
Um,

3:52:35 pm – Isaac King:
people tell me reviews are too long. You need to write less.

3:52:38 pm – Samantha Harr:
Absolutely, not never gonna happen. Thanks. Thank you for that feedback. I will not be taking it. Um, so I think we’ve got about 10 minutes left. If anybody in the in the audience wants to ask us questions, feel free to pop into the twitch chat and do that. Um, While we’re waiting on questions to come in. Isaac, what do you think we could be doing to sort of help folks, who may be feedback, resistant a little bit?

3:53:05 pm – Isaac King:
So I think that that might be the wrong way to look at it, if Ultimately people, you know, are in control of themselves and if somebody is feedback resistant and and doesn’t want feedback, there’s nothing you can do to force them to accept it. and so, I think that It’s you know, there are certainly are people who are gonna get defensive, we can certainly help them in. A lot of ways we can try and word our feedback better, make it less less harsh or less accusatory using talking about you know, my perceptions of somebody’s actions instead of Hey you did It is wrong that can help. There are also various strategies we can encourage like for example, if somebody Is worried about getting very critical feedback and and I in making them upset you can have a friend look over it. So like if I’m doing a presentation and I’m worried about that, I can just ask somebody, who is less emotionally invested in a situation to look over my feedback and then anything that seems important they can present it to me, you know, as a friend and that can help kind of soften the blow. But I think that, you know, as if I’m a feedback giver and there’s somebody else who I’m concerned might be a little resistant or defensive, You know, if I really don’t think that my feedback is going to be appreciated or if I think it’s gonna make the situation worse, than in that situation, I would just not give it but I think it’s very easy for us to form impressions of other people based on a certain, you know, based on one interaction or a couple interactions that end up, not being correct. And just because somebody gets defensive a little bit about one piece of feedback doesn’t mean they’re always going to be that way in the future. And so in general, my my recommendation would be to just if you, if you are worried that somebody, if you think that somebody else is not receptive to feedback, you are probably wrong, not guaranteed, but probably, and so you should give them the benefit of the doubt. It’s, it’s like maybe they’re just not good at social cues and it seems like they were defensive when in fact they really appreciated the feedback. or maybe they were just having a bad day, or maybe they’ve improved since then, but I would say, Don’t, you know, don’t worry too much about that because it’s really easy to fall into that trap of just writing someone off as being resistant to feedback and then you never have an opportunity for that impression to to change

3:55:36 pm – Samantha Harr:
That’s a good point. I have found that a lot of times when I give someone feedback and they seem resistant at like right away that a lot of times, if you just let them kind of stew on it a little while, they’ll come around later and

3:55:49 pm – Isaac King:
that too.

3:55:49 pm – Samantha Harr:
You see you see him? Work on it later. Anyway. Even if they may have been like, hmm at first. Questions from the Chat.

3:55:55 pm – Isaac King:
Yeah.

3:55:56 pm – Samantha Harr:
How do you balance when there is a difference between how you like to give feedback and how someone likes to receive it when we have those those clashes of how we like to give and take feedback.

3:56:07 pm – Isaac King:
That’s a good question. I think the for me, one of the biggest problems is, you know, knowing how other people like to receive feedback. I do try to ask. So I joined the There’s a mentorship project I forgot what it’s called just now but there’s a mentorship project that was started a couple days ago a couple weeks ago and putting people in contact with mentees and mentors.

3:56:31 pm – Samantha Harr:
Oh, on an adventure is that it?

3:56:32 pm – Isaac King:
Yeah. Honored adventure. Yeah.

3:56:33 pm – Samantha Harr:
Yeah.

3:56:34 pm – Isaac King:
And I joined that one as both mente and a mentor. And what I’ve been doing for my mentees is I just ask them like, Hey is this style of mentorship working for you? Do you think a different one would work better? Just how is it going? For. More one-time feedback like at an event. It’s kind of awkward to say to. I can’t just walk up to somebody and saying like Hey I have feedback for you. How would you like to receive it? Because it’s possible that they might receive that poorly. I mean, it’s not terrible, but I think it might be a little weird. So, generally I just try and make the feedback as soft as possible. I try and frame it as, you know, Hey, here my observations, like, Can we talk about this like, It’s not, it’s not, hey, here, all the things you did wrong. It’s I had some questions. You know, why did you do things this way? You know, here’s my perception. You know, is this correct or not? What do you think about these considerations? And my hope is that, that will be That will be. Good enough for most people even with a wide range of how they like to receive feedback and then based on their response I can tailor what I’m saying. So if it seems like they’re not taking it great, I can always try and back off a little bit. Maybe there’s something else I noticed that I’ll just choose not to mention at this time. I can try and tailor my response there. I’m not sure if that’s the best approach. That’s the approach I’m currently taking.

3:57:56 pm – Samantha Harr:
That’s, that’s absolutely valid. I I find that there are certain ways I’m pretty decent at giving feedback in certain ways. I’m not if if people okay? And this is not to say like I can’t handle sensitive people Obviously I try to be very tactful and caring and the way I give feedback but some people tend to prefer feedback be given In very sort of soft passive ways. Like, they almost wanted hinted at more than they want to be directly told what to do. And I, I can struggle with delivering feedback in that way. So, Which is not on them if that’s on me. Like it’s just not how I know how to do things because I’m not that great at reading, social cues, if I’m gonna be completely honest. So In those cases, if I feel like I’m just not the right fit to deliver this feedback, I try to find someone who is who I think might be like a friend. Or if I know who they see as a mentor or who I know they’re close to. I find somebody that may be better equipped to handle delivering that information. If I’m just if I feel like I’m just out of my depth there,

3:58:57 pm – Isaac King:
Sure. Yeah, I had somebody This this might not be exactly you’re talking about, but one time I had somebody who had feedback for me but was nervous about giving it to me directly. And so they found my partner and just asked them to give it to me and I have seen judges, who feel that might be a little inappropriate bringing in like a personal relationship, but it also, I mean, it works like I would much rather. Here the feedback, no matter how it gets to me, then not hear it. And so if that, you know, if that works then You know, go for it and someone like somebody, you know, if, if I know, if I have feedback for somebody and I know one of their friends might be able to approach them from a place of more, trust and know how to talk to them. That, I think that’s a reasonable way to go about it. Just talk to the friend to say, Hey, I have the feedback for this person. Like Do you have any suggestions as to how I should deliver it? Or like maybe you could talk to them about it, You know, it’s kind of a, it’s a little bit of a weird place, but I think that if if that’s a way to get, you know, my goal is to Have the feedback, maximally help that person. And so, whatever accomplishes that goal is going to be, what I’m what I try to do.

4:00:07 pm – Samantha Harr:
absolutely and Isaac those are all great points and we are now sort of at our time limit and I want to Thank you so much for coming onto first week with us. This has been an amazing discussion. Do you have any sort of parting thoughts? You want to give to our audience before we wrap up here?

4:00:23 pm – Isaac King:
I would say, just, I think the biggest thing for Building a general feedback culture rather than one to one. You know, person-to-person feedback is just trust. It’s if I feel like people are out to get me or people are gonna pounce on my mistakes or people are gonna publicly criticize me, then that makes me much less likely to seek out their advice. And it makes me much less likely to give useful feedback to other people. And so, I think, what we really want to be doing in the judge program is building, just in general building. The the general feeling of trust between judges, even judges, you haven’t met each other, We want to know that we are all here because we all have the same goal of running. Great magic events and we all care about each other legitimately and we’re not going to So we generally throw each other under the bus. We’re not going to try and make each other feel bad each other’s expense just having having that community trust is, I think the most important and the most The most useful way to foster that feedback culture.

4:01:32 pm – Samantha Harr:
Absolutely I believe in that very strongly myself and I love that it’s a great answer. So yeah, thank you all so much for joining us out in the audience. It’s been a blast. And for those of you who have been really enjoying the first week series, we are very excited to announce that as of tonight, maybe maybe even right now soon soon. Today, we will have the archive of past videos available on the Judge Academy website. So right now the way things are the videos live on twitch for about 14 days before they just disappear automatically. So, going forward, they’re gonna still live on twitch for 14 days. But then after that, they’re gonna be rehomed over in our archive, over on Judge, Academy.com. So keep a look, keep a look out for that. I will be making social media posts announcing where you can find those archives and we can all enjoy past First Week series together. so yeah, thank you all so much and I will see everybody next month for May, that’s the next month.

4:02:24 pm – Isaac King:
6.

4:02:25 pm – Samantha Harr:
First week may, I will see everybody next month.