Judge Academy > Transcript – March First Week: History of NetReps

Transcript – March First Week: History of NetReps

4:00:44 pm – Daniel Lee:
Hello, and welcome back to the Judge Academy First Week series for March Today. I have with me, Nathan Long, and Scott Marshall, Both of these gentlemen have were previously part of the Netrec program. And we’re going to get into a little bit about what that means, what rules they had and what insights, they can share from us from the early days of the program. So we’re gonna start off, go ahead and please introduce yourselves, share how long you’ve been a judge. What your occupation is, or was outside of judging, when, and how long you were a net rep. And what, when your favorite rules interactions is

4:01:33 pm – Daniel Lee:
interactions is start with you,

4:01:33 pm – Nathan Long:
Sure, my main things along, I’m currently level, Two Judge really become judge According to Judge Center or Judge, Hadley 2002, we’ll call 2002 being able to back in 2005. I was net rep for wizards forums from two different seven. And then we moved on then What’s the wizard format? I moved over to Judge Apps. Till the end of 2019 at the end of the net rep program. Currently, if I’m not answering those questions online which is not very often. I work in the management movie theater.

4:02:00 pm – Daniel Lee:
And when your favorite rules interactions.

4:02:03 pm – Nathan Long:
Let’s just go with new team. You take a lot of fun questions.

4:02:08 pm – Daniel Lee:
I’ve heard it said from Jess Dunks. The current rules manager. He’s definitely said that a lot of times in meetings, everything they’ll think everything’s fine. And then someone says, How does this work with Mutate? And that starts a whole new discussion.

4:02:22 pm – Nathan Long:
But the program for the review team for the rules, we found out mutated a few months beforehand, and the comment was. Okay, here’s mutates. And now, we had to write the rules for it. You made this fun. Made this fun ability, and now you get to put it. Make it work. Have fun.

4:02:40 pm – Scott Marshall:
Yeah.

4:02:43 pm – Daniel Lee:
It’s got to you.

4:02:44 pm – Scott Marshall:
Well it started playing with Mirage and started judging with Mastercor, which basically was right around the time of Sixth Edition changing everything. I thought I knew about the rules and there’s Destiny. Of course, So, that would have been about 99. I don’t remember when I officially certified. I do know that the paperwork kind of sad on James Lee’s desk for longer than I thought it should but he probably rushed it through from his perspective. Yeah. One or two other things to do is judge manager, back then.

4:03:17 pm – Daniel Lee:
Yeah.

4:03:18 pm – Scott Marshall:
Now, level 2 about a year later level three sometime after that. and then, After I’ve been level three for maybe a year or so just out of curiosity. One day I asked Andy. You know what’s the process? If I want to pursue level Four is that even an option? didn’t hear anything for a little while and then got a response from him saying, How would you like to be a net rep? And so we discussed what that

4:03:46 pm – Daniel Lee:
Okay.

4:03:48 pm – Scott Marshall:
involved and that was November of 2004 and I became the net rep. And at the time it was a solo endeavor. It was just me.

4:03:59 pm – Daniel Lee:
Okay.

4:04:00 pm – Scott Marshall:
I had access to a lot of people, you know, when I wasn’t sure over ruling you know, then consult with others and so on. But for quite a while it was just me. And that presented interesting occurrences, let’s say and in fact, we learned quickly that whenever the net rep was on vacation, somebody would start an endless loop of endless loop questions.

4:04:28 pm – Daniel Lee:
Oh yeah.

4:04:29 pm – Scott Marshall:
So, we had to, you know, make sure that somebody else was going to be available on online. Now was back then you know the phones and access to the the list from my phone was not really a thing. I had to find an Internet cafe in London to try and put a stop to one of those loop threads. So

4:04:52 pm – Nathan Long:
As I thought people so they actually turn it to lose themselves.

4:04:56 pm – Daniel Lee:
Yeah.

4:04:56 pm – Scott Marshall:
yeah. Yes. Yes. Endless loop of endless loops. so anyway, so essentially been a net rep since 2004 up until the judge program came to an end October set, 2019, I think? Yeah.

4:05:15 pm – Daniel Lee:
Yeah.

4:05:16 pm – Scott Marshall:
So Almost almost shy of 15 years. So, when I was at gainfully employed, I mostly software and most of that time was spent in the oil and gas industry.

4:05:34 pm – Daniel Lee:
Okay.

4:05:35 pm – Scott Marshall:
Yes, No treated me pretty well as as that industry does. Favorite rules, interactions it throughout the history of it as we morphed the program, so that there were rules experts, as well as policy experts, I would have other people including Nathan helping moderate, the, the forums or the list focusing on the rules.

4:06:04 pm – Daniel Lee:
Okay.

4:06:05 pm – Scott Marshall:
And so I kind of like the policy now that was where I really focused on that and just making people play nice together. And one of my favorite rules, interactions was something that I kind of made up on the fly. But it stuck, somebody was debating on the list about whether or not you concede in time to avoid a game loss. And I posted the official response something along the lines of the elbow of justice is even faster than a concession.

4:06:37 pm – Daniel Lee:
There you go. Yeah.

4:06:38 pm – Scott Marshall:
Yeah. Yeah.

4:06:40 pm – Daniel Lee:
Um, yeah, having folks being able to concede themselves out of a penalty that they’ve earned as doesn’t Um yeah. concede themselves out of a penalty themselves out of a penalty that they’ve earned as doesn’t

4:06:48 pm – Scott Marshall:
Right, Right? I didn’t bother to consult with the experts on that one. I just kind of, you know, flew with it.

4:06:53 pm – Daniel Lee:
I think it goes pretty safe.

4:06:56 pm – Nathan Long:
Do it here. If you know,

4:07:02 pm – Daniel Lee:
Um, okay.

4:07:02 pm – Scott Marshall:
Yeah.

4:07:03 pm – Daniel Lee:
So familiar with the the period of time that we’re we’re talking about from 2004 onward, which is a. So as we were just discussing before we before we went live here, November 2004 is also when I first certified as a judge. So it was a very is an interesting little coincidence, a timing there but at the time DCI Judge L was a mailing list that for any and all certified judges, the one to be a part of it. And as effectively kind of like, you’d send an email to that address and it would send that email to anyone on the list. So it’s kind of this massive forum via email almost. And that got exactly as hectic as you probably think it did, because

4:07:47 pm – Scott Marshall:
Yeah.

4:07:48 pm – Daniel Lee:
sometimes there would be people would be responding multiple times. And if you don’t check your email for six hours, you could come back and there’s 10 messages.

4:07:55 pm – Scott Marshall:
Yeah.

4:07:55 pm – Daniel Lee:
And so, And so, so there was an option to have it sent in digest form. So you’d only One email a day encapsulating, all of the discussions from earlier that day. That was probably the more sane way of doing things, but if we were all saying, we wouldn’t be here. so anyways um, so in that

4:08:11 pm – Scott Marshall:
Oh, two tree.

4:08:14 pm – Daniel Lee:
list what role Scott did you have as a net rep of that list?

4:08:18 pm – Scott Marshall:
Well, first and foremost, ensuring that we provided an official answer. Secondary. Yeah, moderating the list. You know that involved? Like I said earlier, making people play nice calling horse on a list that had been beaten to death on a threat to death, that sort of thing, just kind of making sure that it was effective and efficient for people to use this tool. and you know, eventually once we got the feature built into the newer versions, the Magic Judge apps We were able to, you know, lock down threads and that sort of thing. So it was also our role to say We’re done here. No new information is available. Let’s let’s lock this one.

4:09:10 pm – Daniel Lee:
Hmm, so Nathan, you’re in your role as a net rep on the forums. You said it was on on the Wizards.com, the website.

4:09:18 pm – Nathan Long:
Yeah. That was used to have their own private or their own forums on their website they’ll shut down. I couldn’t tell you I was I want to say 2012 2013 sometime in there but the local before we started those up.

4:09:27 pm – Scott Marshall:
Yeah.

4:09:29 pm – Nathan Long:
the local before we started those up.

4:09:31 pm – Daniel Lee:
That. Yeah.

4:09:31 pm – Nathan Long:
So but yeah, So but yeah they don’t think I So but yeah they don’t think I privileges. I think I was mostly just there, the representative for representative for actually had any moderator privileges I think I was mostly just there the representative for wizard. So I would just if a question popped up or someone asked for an O answer, I would post on the thread you know but the oh bracket oh bracket Certified. This is an official response to this question. Also, another thing I would do is that there was a rule issue that would pass it along to the rule measure, The rule seems that they could take a look at that. Make one of the first things that I did when I became ever was this was back in around more one time. We just percent planeswalkers. Yeah. Like cars like Thor Metals just that This, they were blocked but it they could get them any player. planeswalker they added defending players. So, well, if you tried to you about the ability, like one of the first things that we had to try to fix with, like, Oh, we need to actually around these cards anything. Otherwise, because I think my interpretation at the time was There’s no defending players. I guess they don’t deal damage. This doesn’t feel right probably fix

4:10:28 pm – Daniel Lee:
Yeah.

4:10:28 pm – Nathan Long:
that.

4:10:30 pm – Daniel Lee:
Yeah I I actually remember when because I was judging around that time after so that would have been just before. I worked at Pro Tour, Hollywood in 2008 and when Lauren was was like

4:10:40 pm – Scott Marshall:
Oh yeah.

4:10:44 pm – Daniel Lee:
Lauren and morning tied and I think Shadow Moore was out by then.

4:10:48 pm – Scott Marshall:
And do a masters. The Dual Masters World Championships

4:10:51 pm – Daniel Lee:
I’m not.

4:10:53 pm – Scott Marshall:
were at. Oh wait, no. That was Hollywood. Not LA.

4:10:56 pm – Daniel Lee:
Yeah, yeah.

4:10:57 pm – Scott Marshall:
Never.

4:10:57 pm – Daniel Lee:
Hollywood’s Yeah Hollywood’s Hollywood at the,

4:10:58 pm – Scott Marshall:
Earlier than that. Yeah.

4:10:59 pm – Daniel Lee:
yeah.

4:11:00 pm – Scott Marshall:
Okay.

4:11:01 pm – Daniel Lee:
But I remember

4:11:02 pm – Scott Marshall:
Probably notable for something else but we won’t. Yeah, we’ll dredge that up.

4:11:07 pm – Daniel Lee:
I mean, the thing is notable to me as I still as they like, this is the second tournament, it ever traveled to, to work, right? So, it was a it was on Avenue of the Stars and the Hilton in centuries City, and I didn’t know what that means. I live in LA now so like so that’s

4:11:22 pm – Scott Marshall:
Yeah.

4:11:22 pm – Daniel Lee:
less impressive to me now. But But in particular, I remember when when Planeswalkers were first being released that they had this huge discussion of do, we arrata everything? Based on this. And if I’m remembering the article that I read correctly, it their decision was Well we’re not 100% sure if we’re gonna like this planeswalker thing. So, if it’s a short-lived thing, we don’t want to change all the rules for it. And here we are just a couple years later they’re like, Yeah, we’re gonna go ahead and change all the world around every single thing to just go ahead and say playing soccer in it.

4:11:52 pm – Scott Marshall:
Yep.

4:11:53 pm – Nathan Long:
Good decaders until dominary came out, right?

4:11:56 pm – Daniel Lee:
Yeah, right. All right, cool. So

4:12:01 pm – Scott Marshall:
one of the things that a lot of

4:12:03 pm – Daniel Lee:
yeah.

4:12:03 pm – Scott Marshall:
people weren’t aware of Nate mentioned, the wizards hosted these lists on their lists of There were a few other lists that weren’t public, including one that

4:12:14 pm – Daniel Lee:
Oh, okay.

4:12:15 pm – Scott Marshall:
Nate, and I were both part of the Rules guru list.

4:12:19 pm – Daniel Lee:
oh,

4:12:19 pm – Scott Marshall:
And some very interesting discussions on there. Now and Nate you may remember we had Jeff Jordan and Lori Cheers. And one of the guy name starts with a D Dave or something. That ring a bell.

4:12:34 pm – Nathan Long:
Vaguely but I couldn’t go any further than that.

4:12:35 pm – Scott Marshall:
Yeah. but anyway, they were, they were Pretty much volunteer rules experts and at the level of explaining why the enter the battlefield events more well-defined enough. But boy, when they would get started

4:12:50 pm – Daniel Lee:
okay.

4:12:50 pm – Scott Marshall:
on one of those, those big questions that the Nate would bring up, well, have to arguing, would go on and on and would wash the traffic on the

4:12:57 pm – Nathan Long:
Yeah.

4:12:59 pm – Scott Marshall:
rules or other judge lists. And there was a lot of interesting stuff going on behind the scenes just to get to the point where we can actually give you one of those answers.

4:13:10 pm – Nathan Long:
Yeah, but sometimes you see, let’s set back. Let them get out their system and they’re like, Okay, so how do you want to go with? Go with this and then Do we need to fix this? Or what is going to be for now? And then go.

4:13:20 pm – Scott Marshall:
Yeah. Yeah.

4:13:22 pm – Daniel Lee:
It’s, it’s really interesting. Comparing those days to what we’ve got going on these days. Where if I run into a headache real scenario. That folks can’t even agree on like on the JA discord. I can go to Jess the rules manager and say Hey we’re having this problem, what’s going on? And he’ll get back to me and say

4:13:40 pm – Scott Marshall:
Yeah.

4:13:41 pm – Daniel Lee:
Here’s the answer. So,

4:13:42 pm – Nathan Long:
Yeah.

4:13:42 pm – Scott Marshall:
Yeah.

4:13:45 pm – Daniel Lee:
expedient, that’s for sure.

4:13:47 pm – Nathan Long:
Used to be pure email for me. Like Are you just or the Million list later on during the IRC years? We actually had a private IRC channel that we could kind of sort of function as the Rules. Google list that all the rules will So we had questions with Ping that hang out on it. Channel would be a lot. Be a lot easier conversation rather than taking emails back and forth. It was more organic conversation to have And eventually that would kind of be right back around to having emails and Facebook messages and for. But I mean, I thought I still have the jazz if you couple that. I I’ve some things that coming that I submitted that are looking to get fixed for a future updates. Like I still keep track of them just to let him know to keep updating things, get things fixed. I still kind of role and that respect, so officially entering roles questions even though that the program is no longer functioning.

4:14:42 pm – Daniel Lee:
Right. Okay um so I wanted to talk a little bit about what the strengths were of the systems as they exist, Scott with the mailing list and your role as a network there. And then Nathan, your role is a Right. Okay. bit about what the strengths were of the systems as they exist, Scott with the mailing list and your role as a mailing list and your role as a network there. And then Nathan, your role is a as a net rep on the forums and like what strengths? Those media had at the time that may or may not still be true in the things that we’ve got going on today. So Scott will start with you.

4:15:07 pm – Scott Marshall:
Well, strength and weakness at the same time.

4:15:11 pm – Daniel Lee:
Sure, go for yeah.

4:15:13 pm – Scott Marshall:
Zones. I didn’t matter what time zone, you

4:15:15 pm – Daniel Lee:
Oh sure.

4:15:17 pm – Scott Marshall:
were in, you had access to this tool, you could post ask your questions, you could read it at your leisure you know in your morning or your lunch time break, you’re after after work hours, whatever. And especially with the digest mode you get that, you know, You invest your time in that whenever you actually have the time to invest. But it was a weakness, because That lag time that’s built in between when someone in the Apac or even the euro areas would ask a question and I would wake up and see it and start the process of getting the answer. Often inspired encouraged, maybe even a whole lot of incorrect and unofficial answers. So, there were any number of times when I would wake up. Check my email first thing because I was just that dedicated. Yeah, that’s the word. And they’re already be 20 30 messages all in response to a rules question that as it happened, the rule screws didn’t even have a final answer for yet, but there were certainly plenty of wrong answers out there.

4:16:29 pm – Daniel Lee:
Oh yeah, I definitely I definitely

4:16:30 pm – Scott Marshall:
so,

4:16:31 pm – Daniel Lee:
remember a handful of those

4:16:31 pm – Scott Marshall:
Yeah.

4:16:32 pm – Daniel Lee:
situations where it’s like y’all This it’s like y’all This was a question that was asked. It has an answer handful of those situations where it’s like y’all This was a question that was asked. that was asked. into a discussion. This isn’t a discussion post. handful of those situations where was a question that was asked. It has an answer and we’ve turned it into a discussion. This isn’t a discussion post. This isn’t a discussion post.

4:16:44 pm – Scott Marshall:
Yeah, we did our best to enforce the no discussion on the Rules List. Discussion only on the judge list, but Of course people would find ways to make the rules questions appropriate on the judge list so they could continue arguing. Anyway, anytime you get together several, you know, thousand people from all over the world, you’re going to have some interesting discussions. And that was another one of the strengths is You know how that enabled that interaction you know eventually that led to people like Mark Brown level three Level Four actually before the the change from Australia. Yeah, he would generally be waking up about the time that my work day was done and he was more than happy to step in and moderate as much as necessary until North America came back on the clock the next morning. So, we had that.

4:17:39 pm – Daniel Lee:
Yeah, I remember I I was that’s monarch, right? Yeah. My brain always wants to put it in in this name because I I knew that was his handle and irc.

4:17:46 pm – Scott Marshall:
Yep. Yep. Yep. An early typo led to infamy. No.

4:17:55 pm – Daniel Lee:
So Nathan’s, ticket to you. So your experience on the forums, what did you think were some strengths and weaknesses of handling things that way

4:18:04 pm – Nathan Long:
Okay, for forms of their news because you put everything in a nice ordered list, one problem, The mailing list is sometimes like, people will send out messages, but they won’t get sent right away. So someone will reply to a message that they don’t know, it’s already been reply to by someone else that just hasn’t made to their inbox yet with

4:18:20 pm – Daniel Lee:
Okay.

4:18:20 pm – Scott Marshall:
No.

4:18:22 pm – Nathan Long:
Everything up in an order. And I can just You can be like, Okay, I’m replying to this specific post and this is my answer. Then, if you need to, you can lock the thread. At that point that locking thread isn’t as possible list. I recall good. You couldn’t tell the stop answering this question. Talk about this question. I could for me you can just put a stamp on it.

4:18:41 pm – Daniel Lee:
Right.

4:18:41 pm – Scott Marshall:
Yep.

4:18:42 pm – Daniel Lee:
You You could you could tell them whether or not they’d listen was a different question.

4:18:45 pm – Scott Marshall:
Exactly. I remember all those replies we’d get were someone would be indigest mode and they’d include the entire digest

4:18:51 pm – Nathan Long:
Yeah.

4:18:53 pm – Scott Marshall:
in the reply and really what they

4:18:54 pm – Daniel Lee:
God.

4:18:56 pm – Scott Marshall:
were replying to

4:18:57 pm – Daniel Lee:
I took psychic damage from that reminder.

4:19:00 pm – Scott Marshall:
Yep. So the other weaknesses.

4:19:05 pm – Daniel Lee:
um,

4:19:05 pm – Nathan Long:
That’s a little easier because in the rules. The rules form, all of threads were automatically locked.

4:19:11 pm – Scott Marshall:
Yeah.

4:19:12 pm – Nathan Long:
our own pace or there was. No, there was no other discussion. That could happen to tell us. We allowed. It’s so, if someone really wanted to give

4:19:18 pm – Scott Marshall:
Yep.

4:19:19 pm – Nathan Long:
their idea on an internal questions, like you can’t Just go to your private form and talk about it. But The judge has form is going to be gonna be devoted to our official answers that no one else can reply to you.

4:19:34 pm – Daniel Lee:
Yeah, I remember, I remember that tech for specifically, for the rules for him, and I, that always struck me as like, it’s one of those. It’s a little jarring, when you’re like, every single thread is automatically locked. But the moment you see it in action, you actually get really. You get a real good sense of why that’s there.

4:19:48 pm – Scott Marshall:
Yep.

4:19:48 pm – Daniel Lee:
And the benefit And the benefit that it’s providing of like, Hey the signal to noise, ratio is excellent.

4:19:54 pm – Scott Marshall:
Yeah, that was a huge improvement.

4:19:57 pm – Nathan Long:
Yes.

4:19:58 pm – Daniel Lee:
All right. So I wanted to ask about your favorite part about being a net rep and what your least favorite part was and Nathan will start with you this time.

4:20:11 pm – Nathan Long:
I don’t have a favor to thank you just being a place a source of knowledge is and like you know the people can come can come to you for an answer because you you’re interested source. You know what’s going on. The they know they come to you that they they respect your opinion because you have. I mean, I’m not sure that’s the right word but like, you know, they you know, people know that, you know, you’re talking about

4:20:35 pm – Scott Marshall:
Yes.

4:20:36 pm – Nathan Long:
the worst part about Netapp is, when you get something, that’s corner Casey and I know every every judge has their favorite quarter case, question that they that is never going to come up in a real game of magic. I’m playing glacial warm and sales of all that we were talking about that just before we we learn alive here.

4:20:52 pm – Daniel Lee:
Yeah. Yep.

4:20:53 pm – Nathan Long:
The number that biggest brought up and the number times, it happened in a real game of magic. Those numbers are not closed. The no one is activities of all during the announcement about Hank glacial warm and hopes that you get the man of the cancer. No, no one is gonna try, that’s no

4:21:06 pm – Scott Marshall:
Yeah.

4:21:07 pm – Nathan Long:
That’s no one’s even the thing to try that. But enough people have made us care. We have we have we know what to do, if it happens to come up.

4:21:16 pm – Daniel Lee:
Mmm.

4:21:16 pm – Nathan Long:
That usually the answer is, You can try. If you fail, you’re probably cheating because you probably there to me, that’s all because you want all that card. But yeah, just and then sometimes like, you know, the you can talk to a rose manager about a question and they just may not care. So they’re not gonna give you an answer that just kind of. Well, I guess this question is going to be a dead end because I’m not gonna be good. I’m not gonna get an answer because it’s not high enough on the priority list that they want to give an answer.

4:21:48 pm – Daniel Lee:
It’s definitely a

4:21:49 pm – Nathan Long:
I I was pointing to some people, but Sometimes that’s just what happens. Yeah.

4:21:56 pm – Daniel Lee:
It can be a resource allocation problem, right? Like if it’s gonna take several people, some time to figure out an answer to it, or whether rules need to get changed to accommodate and answer to it versus are these cards that are ever actually going to see play in a physical game of magic. Like, I can absolutely see that maybe not being worth it.

4:22:14 pm – Nathan Long:
yeah, it’s just like, you know, sometimes you because I thought into this for your question, but we can also develop resources that something that’s More likely going to happen, that’s going to affect more players. So what’s about the resources to something? That’s going to come up more often, that’s going to impact more players than this one up, sphere quarter case

4:22:30 pm – Daniel Lee:
Right.

4:22:32 pm – Nathan Long:
question.

4:22:33 pm – Scott Marshall:
Yeah.

4:22:35 pm – Daniel Lee:
So it’s got to you, what were your favorite and least favorite parts about your side of the net reps.

4:22:40 pm – Scott Marshall:
Well, I kind of alluded to this already the the sense of community that you build by interacting with

4:22:44 pm – Daniel Lee:
Mm-hmm.

4:22:45 pm – Scott Marshall:
people all over the world. And somewhat tangential to being a net rep, interacting with those people in person, when you finally got to meet people that you’ve been, you know, talking to talking to, you forums and before that through the know, interacting with through the list. getting to meet them and work with them at events is just really kind of a special thing but like Nate said, also the the respect that you get from being in that role and being seen as that that expert Which of course was a double-edged sword because then I’d get to an event and everybody thought that I had all those answers and really accessible, they didn’t realize that I had to ask a lot of times myself to make sure I had the right answer. As far as least favorites. And this is true of any role that you feel any job. but, Lots of people knew how to do my job. And they weren’t afraid to tell me.

4:23:53 pm – Daniel Lee:
Ah, okay.

4:23:54 pm – Scott Marshall:
Yep. And what are the hardest things about this? Is that you’ve got a lot of very vocal and very influential people who have their opinions on what the noise level should be, how we should moderate, how we should react to certain things etc. And they weren’t all in agreement, of course. Yep. And one of the hardest things about this is that you’ve got a lot of very vocal and very influential people who have their opinions on what the noise level should be, how we should moderate, how we should react to certain things etc. And they weren’t all in agreement, of course. And so it was our role to placate as many as possible while still serving the whole community. So that was that was sometimes difficult to do.

4:24:25 pm – Daniel Lee:
Sure.

4:24:27 pm – Nathan Long:
Yeah. Like rules are a little more solid than a policy point to a rule cover. Something that policy is a little more fluid. You may not have everything like, in print to cover things, but even though I would get people messaging me, my email saying that I’m wrong, even though I discussed this with the rules manager, like Yeah, we agree, that’s what’s supposed to happen and that you feel that I’m wrong, but I’m not

4:24:51 pm – Daniel Lee:
But it’s a little bit like my backgrounds in mathematics. So it’s a little bit when I’m like at two plus two equals four and someone goes but is it though and I go Yeah. Yeah it is. I’m a hundred percent positive, it is yeah sometimes you’re just right and sometimes there’s just right and wrong.

4:25:05 pm – Scott Marshall:
But only in English. That’s only true in English.

4:25:08 pm – Daniel Lee:
What’s up? Well sure, but that’s the link with your speaker right now. So there you go.

4:25:16 pm – Scott Marshall:
Those posters cuatro, not for.

4:25:19 pm – Daniel Lee:
All right. That’s I mean those are words that

4:25:20 pm – Nathan Long:
I’m sorry.

4:25:21 pm – Daniel Lee:
represent the same thing.

4:25:25 pm – Nathan Long:
Before Scott’s.

4:25:26 pm – Scott Marshall:
I’m sorry.

4:25:27 pm – Nathan Long:
Dave, Delaney, without the person you’re thinking before on the rules.

4:25:29 pm – Scott Marshall:
That’s that was the other rules guru that.

4:25:33 pm – Nathan Long:
yeah, that was

4:25:34 pm – Scott Marshall:
David often Lori would Yeah.

4:25:38 pm – Daniel Lee:
Right on.

4:25:39 pm – Nathan Long:
yeah. so,

4:25:40 pm – Daniel Lee:
Yeah. And

4:25:41 pm – Nathan Long:
Jeff a little bit. Although, I mean, he was a little heavy-handed sometimes, especially on some of the, the public forums,

4:25:48 pm – Scott Marshall:
Oh absolutely. Yeah. Yeah.

4:25:51 pm – Nathan Long:
And I know he got into some discussions on salvation, a few times mtg salvation here.

4:25:58 pm – Scott Marshall:
Oh yeah.

4:25:58 pm – Daniel Lee:
okay.

4:25:59 pm – Scott Marshall:
Yeah.

4:25:59 pm – Nathan Long:
there.

4:26:02 pm – Daniel Lee:
And and Mtg salvation. As a noted legacy community was definitely gonna have some some Harry interactions coming up for sure. um, So, Nathan. You said that your role on the forums. You did not have moderator. Privileges, is that correct?

4:26:22 pm – Scott Marshall:
Not initially.

4:26:23 pm – Nathan Long:
Really recall on the butres, I’ve read that I had I think I had to talk to whether or moderators who had locked something that ever came up,

4:26:31 pm – Daniel Lee:
Okay.

4:26:33 pm – Nathan Long:
Think ever really came out too often. I know I had moderator approaches on judge apps, but that was purely for the real Q&A forum because you had

4:26:40 pm – Daniel Lee:
Okay.

4:26:40 pm – Nathan Long:
your moderator to post to a locked thread.

4:26:42 pm – Daniel Lee:
Right. Okay.

4:26:44 pm – Nathan Long:
Outside that it didn’t really do anything with my moderator powers on judge ever. I was kind of was brought in like halfway through anyway. I wasn’t originally a moderator. It was just kind of like when the witch was formed shut down. I became a brown and for a while I didn’t have placed the tenet rap officially. So I just wanted over to judge ask because I’m like Oh well this place seems to need help because it was just was just Daniel F that point for that right rules.

4:27:09 pm – Scott Marshall:
You can adjust it, yeah.

4:27:09 pm – Daniel Lee:
Get a Chucky.

4:27:11 pm – Scott Marshall:
Yep.

4:27:11 pm – Daniel Lee:
Yeah, that sounds about right? Yeah.

4:27:12 pm – Nathan Long:
yeah, so I just wanted over there and then once I started answering

4:27:13 pm – Scott Marshall:
Yep.

4:27:15 pm – Nathan Long:
questions over there, like, hey, you should be in a moderator so you can actually post replays and then that

4:27:21 pm – Scott Marshall:
Yep.

4:27:23 pm – Nathan Long:
the story

4:27:23 pm – Daniel Lee:
Okay, so you were made of moderator more for like mechanical reasons than anything else.

4:27:28 pm – Nathan Long:
You know where we found that for a like I got all the reports from other reported threats but it actually do anything with them mostly because by the time I got to read the threads I it was already dealt with. Or it would be someone else. So it, I can see everything was happening by. Didn’t actually do anything. With respect to judge apps. It was my mom ever just proposing to the Rules Q&A Forum.

4:27:50 pm – Daniel Lee:
Got you and Scott to my to my memory, you were an actual moderator on the Judge apps forums is that correct?

4:27:56 pm – Scott Marshall:
Correct.

4:27:56 pm – Daniel Lee:
Okay, cool. How did that experience? How was that? Similar? Or different from the mailing list?

4:28:02 pm – Scott Marshall:
Oh, night and day almost. And that. You know, we had such better tools in judge apps. Whereas listserve was a very functional tool for what it was intended for which was community mailing lists. This was much more than that and that it was a global communication and organization tool for the judge program. So the better tools from judge apps meant a lot less noise. And also a lot less contentiousness. I think, at least that’s the impression I took away from it.

4:28:41 pm – Daniel Lee:
I do remember there being some contentious threads on those on those

4:28:45 pm – Scott Marshall:
Always. Yeah.

4:28:46 pm – Daniel Lee:
forums for sure, but yeah, I think

4:28:47 pm – Scott Marshall:
Yep.

4:28:49 pm – Daniel Lee:
I think to my memory, it’s definitely less often than it would happen on on DCI Judgl for sure.

4:28:55 pm – Scott Marshall:
Yep, yep. Yep.

4:28:58 pm – Daniel Lee:
I don’t.

4:28:59 pm – Scott Marshall:
Yeah.

4:29:01 pm – Daniel Lee:
So have either of you done, moderation in any other field say on a twitch street like a twitch chat stream discord servers or anything like that.

4:29:11 pm – Scott Marshall:
And just a little bit of dabbling in

4:29:12 pm – Nathan Long:
so,

4:29:14 pm – Scott Marshall:
IRC and that’s it.

4:29:15 pm – Daniel Lee:
Okay.

4:29:17 pm – Nathan Long:
Like the way way back in the day back, when Mtg news was still an active website. I was well, the moderators for that for their rules page. And part of that was actually like Yeah, I mean, eventually, like I’m teaching news that kind of died out and then I kind of I didn’t enjoy back that part of it as much. I didn’t really seek it out. I mean, I think technically like

4:29:39 pm – Daniel Lee:
Okay.

4:29:41 pm – Nathan Long:
moderator around some twist channels, I don’t actually do anything with that. It’s just supposed to like Hey we made you a moderator because you happen to be here, I think Eric Levine has a pixel crimes. That he posted every couple every week that he gave me a moderator. What really wanted to do anything with that? I I don’t Take it out. I don’t really do anything with that anymore. It’s

4:30:06 pm – Daniel Lee:
Sure.

4:30:06 pm – Nathan Long:
I mean, I mean, I like, you know, Okay, let’s talk about ready for a I mean, I bet I mean ready is a place second. let’s admit that Reddit is a place.

4:30:16 pm – Daniel Lee:
Indeed, I read it exists.

4:30:18 pm – Scott Marshall:
Yes.

4:30:18 pm – Nathan Long:
The magic TCG, subreddits usually, usually focus on my rules but like

4:30:21 pm – Daniel Lee:
Okay.

4:30:24 pm – Nathan Long:
the rule strategy, people ask for those questions. I’ll answer because I let questions where I see them. Yeah, I thought about becoming a moderator but just see all the crap that those guys go through like a week week basis is just like that is that is too much. That is not what I am trying to get out of being in a community. I do not want a little of harassment

4:30:44 pm – Daniel Lee:
Fair enough.

4:30:46 pm – Nathan Long:
and moderation, just yeah. A further community that if someone approached me, I would consider it. But at this point I it’s just not something that I’m terribly interested anymore.

4:30:58 pm – Daniel Lee:
Yeah, it’s to put it one way cleaning up the muck means you got to be willing to get covered in it for a little bit and that is that is a singular type of person that does

4:31:03 pm – Scott Marshall:
Yep.

4:31:05 pm – Daniel Lee:
well at that.

4:31:07 pm – Scott Marshall:
Yep.

4:31:07 pm – Nathan Long:
Yeah.

4:31:08 pm – Scott Marshall:
Yep. Now, I’ve often worried about my

4:31:10 pm – Daniel Lee:
Okay.

4:31:12 pm – Scott Marshall:
emotional stability because I did enjoy it for so long.

4:31:17 pm – Daniel Lee:
That’s how that’s how we got. Our Uncle Scott though because we know that Uncle Scott tries his best to take care of us.

4:31:22 pm – Scott Marshall:
Yep, that you can blame that nickname on Ricardo Tessitory. Text.

4:31:27 pm – Daniel Lee:
I, I absolutely will.

4:31:28 pm – Scott Marshall:
He warned appointment. Yep. But yeah. It came about because of my role on the on the list.

4:31:36 pm – Daniel Lee:
Right on. And I wanted to harken back to something you’d mentioned before, about how it really was. This sort of sense of community especially across time zones because I just, you know, when we were, when we were talking about setting this up, I had, I went back into my old, my old email accounts I’ve changed email since then, and I, I was smart at one point and set up a filter to send all of those emails to their own folder and I still have that folder. And so I’m looking back through those

4:32:03 pm – Scott Marshall:
Hmm.

4:32:03 pm – Daniel Lee:
and I’m seeing, like, just all these names of folks that we’re still that I have since worked events with and it’s just wild that these people were just in a room talking to each other effectively. And it was a really cool little

4:32:15 pm – Scott Marshall:
Yeah.

4:32:17 pm – Daniel Lee:
Really cool feature that. I hope we’re able to recapture at some point because that’s it was really neat. It felt the program felt a lot closer together for as in for as large as it

4:32:29 pm – Scott Marshall:
Well.

4:32:30 pm – Daniel Lee:
was.

4:32:30 pm – Nathan Long:
No technology changes but ultimately, we can still be the judge community that we always have been.

4:32:36 pm – Daniel Lee:
Yeah, for sure.

4:32:38 pm – Nathan Long:
We’re familias From families move to forums. Now we’re starting to move to like, you know, discord or Facebook.

4:32:43 pm – Daniel Lee:
Mm-hmm.

4:32:44 pm – Nathan Long:
We’re still, we’re still global community. They can still communicate with each other.

4:32:47 pm – Daniel Lee:
Yeah, for sure. And that the the means may have changed, but the community is still there for sure.

4:32:53 pm – Scott Marshall:
Yeah.

4:32:53 pm – Daniel Lee:
I wanted to confirm something for someone in the, In the Twitch chat. Yes, Scott is indeed wearing one of the old zebra, stripe shirts. I mentioned, we were talking about that. I, I do own, not that style, but the one that just had the DCI logo, I did own that. At one point it no longer fits me even if I still have it.

4:33:14 pm – Nathan Long:
Yeah, I put mine up years ago for a random for random stream and like I’m

4:33:19 pm – Scott Marshall:
Hi.

4:33:20 pm – Nathan Long:
over the years somehow, I don’t quite understand.

4:33:23 pm – Daniel Lee:
Yeah.

4:33:25 pm – Nathan Long:
It I’m in shape around as a shape. I’m just getting

4:33:27 pm – Daniel Lee:
oh,

4:33:28 pm – Nathan Long:
around.

4:33:31 pm – Daniel Lee:
I remember John Carter wore his to an event at one point relatively

4:33:36 pm – Scott Marshall:
Yes.

4:33:37 pm – Daniel Lee:
recently. It wasn’t that long ago.

4:33:38 pm – Scott Marshall:
Yes.

4:33:39 pm – Nathan Long:
Yeah.

4:33:39 pm – Scott Marshall:
It was in 19, I think, or maybe even

4:33:41 pm – Daniel Lee:
Yeah.

4:33:42 pm – Scott Marshall:
an early 20.

4:33:43 pm – Daniel Lee:
That sounds.

4:33:44 pm – Scott Marshall:
Was it a whole rough roughly that time frame? Maybe Halloween of 19.

4:33:48 pm – Daniel Lee:
I, Something like that. That sounds about, right? It might have been, I want to say there was a Oklahoma City. And at the End of 2019,

4:33:59 pm – Scott Marshall:
Yes. Yeah. That might have been it or was that the one? Where he wore the squirrel costume?

4:34:04 pm – Nathan Long:
That wasn’t earlier, whatever.

4:34:06 pm – Daniel Lee:
That was earlier because that was

4:34:07 pm – Nathan Long:
I think that.

4:34:07 pm – Scott Marshall:
Okay.

4:34:08 pm – Daniel Lee:
unstable.

4:34:08 pm – Nathan Long:
Goes there for that.

4:34:09 pm – Daniel Lee:
Yeah, that was one unstable.

4:34:10 pm – Scott Marshall:
Yes, yes.

4:34:10 pm – Daniel Lee:
out. So I what that I want to say that was before 2019.

4:34:13 pm – Scott Marshall:
So he was dressed appropriately for unstable. Yes.

4:34:17 pm – Daniel Lee:
Right. Correct. Yes, I remember hearing a lot.

4:34:18 pm – Scott Marshall:
Yeah.

4:34:20 pm – Daniel Lee:
Oh, Oh, Billy Willy has a has her back there. It was Vegas. When you say last year. Oh he okay. It was at Mtg Vegas in 2021. Just a few months ago, that’s why it

4:34:32 pm – Scott Marshall:
oh,

4:34:33 pm – Daniel Lee:
sounds so familiar to me because it was just a few months ago There we go.

4:34:37 pm – Scott Marshall:
what? He also warned that in 2019 at some point. I’m pretty sure.

4:34:42 pm – Daniel Lee:
Yeah, I’m pretty sure he did too, but yeah, but Billy was right. That’s why it’s sticking out so much me is because it was just a few months ago

4:34:49 pm – Scott Marshall:
You know. We certainly do have more freedom with Judge shirts than we ever did before.

4:34:55 pm – Daniel Lee:
Yeah, that’s true. And that’s like, it’s kind of neat. And I remember this from Mtg Vegas just a few months ago that everyone kind of tried to like sort of they kind of were what they had and it didn’t. And you know, wasn’t quite as cosi cohesive as the sea of black shirts that we’ve been used to from recent years. But there’s a, it was kind of neat to see the little bit of A All of these different people have come together to do the same job.

4:35:24 pm – Scott Marshall:
Yeah.

4:35:26 pm – Daniel Lee:
So that it was it was its own kind of a neat thing in a way that I I really appreciated and didn’t really like it kind of took me that surprised. It wasn’t expecting to notice it at all, but it was it was kind of neat to have everyone be in like, Hey, this is what this is how I’m presenting myself today, it was kind of neat.

4:35:43 pm – Scott Marshall:
Yeah.

4:35:47 pm – Daniel Lee:
So I wanted to leave a fair amount of time for us to talk about some of your favorite stories or memories from from these days. And Scott, I’m sure you have a

4:35:57 pm – Nathan Long:
Yeah.

4:35:58 pm – Daniel Lee:
million of them just because you’re you’re a bit of a storyteller

4:36:02 pm – Scott Marshall:
Yeah, I have that reputation too.

4:36:03 pm – Daniel Lee:
um, but yeah, I wanted to, I wanted to at least leave some time if there was any particular ones that stuck out to that you wanted to share with the with the community?

4:36:14 pm – Scott Marshall:
well, in numeral memes have been spawned by the list in the forums, but there are some

4:36:30 pm – Nathan Long:
I,

4:36:30 pm – Scott Marshall:
And I’ll throw out one rubber bands.

4:36:35 pm – Daniel Lee:
Hmm, see that one doesn’t scan to me.

4:36:37 pm – Scott Marshall:
Okay. Well there. There was a thread that was started prior to an upcoming event. I don’t even remember it was a pro tour or a GP but there are some concern because It may have been when we were doing the first limited. Sealed deck. Tournament at a professional level without starter packs. And so now, people were going to be opening boosters. And how are we supposed to handle this? What were the good ways of organizing it and a judge who shall remain nameless for his own sake? But went by the handle of Kermit Defrog, Replied with the simple one-line, answer rubber bands. And it just became a meme that’s been thrown around ever since. It was also shouted down rather quickly because of the potential damage to cards but It was a very enjoyable moment.

4:37:37 pm – Daniel Lee:
ah there is a this very is very interesting thing that Billy Willy mentioned in the chat that I’m, you know, every once in a while, you’re not sure if the email list is working or not, or if your emails are actually making it there, so you might spend a simple one word email

4:37:49 pm – Scott Marshall:
Paying.

4:37:51 pm – Daniel Lee:
email saying ping to see if it

4:37:53 pm – Scott Marshall:
Yep.

4:37:54 pm – Daniel Lee:
actually works.

4:37:58 pm – Scott Marshall:
And the dilemma for all moderators of how many pings before we lock. I do believe there may have been one of those ping threads that fired up. When I happened to be right there watching, and I had the opportunity to reply immediately with one ping only.

4:38:18 pm – Daniel Lee:
Hey, I get that reference because I love that movie. That was a hunt for Red October

4:38:22 pm – Scott Marshall:
I think. But it was certainly a great way to

4:38:24 pm – Daniel Lee:
reference.

4:38:26 pm – Scott Marshall:
try and bring it into it.

4:38:30 pm – Daniel Lee:
Give me a ping

4:38:31 pm – Scott Marshall:
You know.

4:38:31 pm – Daniel Lee:
Daily Really one ping. Only please.

4:38:34 pm – Scott Marshall:
Another rather amusing moments on the lists. Also, thanks to Kermit Defrog. Prior to an Atlanta event, might have been a pro tour. The white kenju, the one where you could activate it and give it a life link likeability.

4:38:54 pm – Daniel Lee:
Oh, again, do the fields?

4:38:54 pm – Scott Marshall:
Except they did stack.

4:38:55 pm – Daniel Lee:
Yeah.

4:38:59 pm – Scott Marshall:
Well, This judge went off on the list about how this ability was just unbalanced, too powerful was going to destroy the pro tour. um, And then of course, in his true

4:39:11 pm – Nathan Long:
Hmm.

4:39:14 pm – Scott Marshall:
fashion followed up with, I demand that the powers that be review and take action on this.

4:39:22 pm – Daniel Lee:
Demand is a strong word.

4:39:23 pm – Scott Marshall:
And you get in there and say anything about this and maybe because I couldn’t stop laughing in time. John Carter, who was the judge manager at the time? Provided his one-line response, which became its own meme. Five asterisks all CAPS request denied five asterisks.

4:39:43 pm – Nathan Long:
I still use that to this day, requested eyes for any, anything

4:39:46 pm – Scott Marshall:
Yeah.

4:39:46 pm – Nathan Long:
that’s like that’s not gonna, I’m

4:39:47 pm – Scott Marshall:
Yeah.

4:39:48 pm – Nathan Long:
sorry, but no.

4:39:52 pm – Daniel Lee:
I hear you.

4:39:52 pm – Scott Marshall:
Exactly.

4:39:53 pm – Daniel Lee:
I’m sorry that happened to you. No.

4:39:56 pm – Scott Marshall:
And to be fair, having Carter reply, request denied is nowhere near as earth-shattering as well. The number of times Andy had to dive into the list with Welcome to Level Zero.

4:40:07 pm – Nathan Long:
Yeah, out there. There’s

4:40:11 pm – Scott Marshall:
Yep.

4:40:12 pm – Daniel Lee:
yeah, I remember, I remember one of those was when someone was trying to trying to report some like collusion or some like really shady

4:40:22 pm – Scott Marshall:
Yes.

4:40:23 pm – Daniel Lee:
activity and Andy had to slap that down really hard. It’s like this is not appropriate to

4:40:28 pm – Scott Marshall:
Yep.

4:40:28 pm – Daniel Lee:
discuss. Here’s this is not how you do this. This is not how you do this. It’s like this is not appropriate to discuss here. This is not how you do this.

4:40:32 pm – Scott Marshall:
And as it happened, it was an ongoing

4:40:32 pm – Daniel Lee:
That was.

4:40:34 pm – Scott Marshall:
investigation already.

4:40:36 pm – Daniel Lee:
Aha.

4:40:37 pm – Scott Marshall:
and I was kind of damaging that Yeah.

4:40:44 pm – Daniel Lee:
Ish um B-pro is bringing up attention GP head Judge. Does that ring any bells?

4:40:53 pm – Scott Marshall:
Oh yeah. oh,

4:41:00 pm – Daniel Lee:
I remember, oh, there was a, there

4:41:00 pm – Nathan Long:
Of course.

4:41:02 pm – Daniel Lee:
was a saying that I that I remember any time you would you give an answer was a saying that I that I remember any time you would you give an answer or it was like something like I’m pretty sure this is the answer. I’m gonna go double check and you come back with sorry I have to You, there would be a, there would be a interjection of pants.

4:41:18 pm – Scott Marshall:
Yep. So do you know the origin of that phrase?

4:41:23 pm – Daniel Lee:
I know that it’s Paul again, not thinking straight.

4:41:27 pm – Scott Marshall:
Correct, Paul Barkley.

4:41:28 pm – Daniel Lee:
Okay.

4:41:29 pm – Scott Marshall:
Paul Barkley. We an early net rep.

4:41:30 pm – Daniel Lee:
Okay.

4:41:32 pm – Scott Marshall:
Sometime after. Sometime after Beth Morrison. Who. Ended up having Beth Moe, what Beth Moe said, being kind of a meme before memes were a thing. No And then after Beth well, some sometime in there, there was also Michael Foell known as Elf and then Root or Vic took over. And Runa was net rep. Up until November 2004. Where he had the unfortunate pleasure, I guess of getting a full-time job working for Upper Deck and thus making it impossible for wizards to continue their contract arrangement with him. Now because they couldn’t have an employee of the competition on under contract with them. And that created the vacancy that they filled with me. And once I got my claws in there and never let go

4:42:32 pm – Daniel Lee:
Bevmo is a, that’s ringing the most distance of distant of bells.

4:42:36 pm – Scott Marshall:
That would have been 98.99 time frame.

4:42:39 pm – Daniel Lee:
yeah, but I think I think it was that

4:42:39 pm – Scott Marshall:
I think.

4:42:41 pm – Daniel Lee:
someone that was referred to later on at some point.

4:42:44 pm – Scott Marshall:
Yeah. Yeah, Beth Morrison was, I believe she was a wizards employee and one of the earliest rules experts.

4:42:51 pm – Daniel Lee:
Right on and then I definitely remember Elf being mentioned a few times.

4:42:55 pm – Scott Marshall:
Yep. Yep.

4:42:57 pm – Daniel Lee:
But yeah. So that was those right around my era. So, there were a couple of questions from Chat. What’s it likelihood of? Oh, making a comeback. And I guess that’s really more a question for me. And the goal is to make it so that official answers are a thing that we can get when necessary. Um, and it’s one of my my own projects of actually doing the thing that we were never able to do before and collecting a responses into a single repository. So that’s somehow searchable or useful in some way. So that is

4:43:33 pm – Nathan Long:
Oh, threat of the Judge Florence when they shut that I didn’t bother to go back and grab all my old post, I don’t have a record of any of my old ruins.

4:43:40 pm – Scott Marshall:
Yep.

4:43:41 pm – Nathan Long:
There’s a few that were reference and like, some other friends, I know other forms, but I don’t have a list of all my official.

4:43:47 pm – Daniel Lee:
Yeah.

4:43:48 pm – Nathan Long:
wizards forms. Unfortunately, that was kind of take myself now by Mike, I didn’t think about anything was gonna be a huge deal the time, so,

4:43:56 pm – Daniel Lee:
Yeah, sure. And and honestly like a lot of old ones aren’t actually gonna be that useful going forward.

4:44:01 pm – Scott Marshall:
Right.

4:44:03 pm – Daniel Lee:
Or may just be completely irrelevant in a couple of years, anyways, if those rules change, right? So,

4:44:09 pm – Scott Marshall:
That was the that was the primary objection that Toby always raised whenever we’d bring this up. You know, and I made the argument once that you look at the rules of golf and they’re fairly simple. But there is an extremely thick book. There we go. camera awareness, A really called the

4:44:25 pm – Daniel Lee:
Mm-hmm.

4:44:28 pm – Scott Marshall:
decisions on the rules of golf. And it grows all the time and it’s maintained. And it made sense for magic judges to have access to something similar to that. But what the other big distinction is that the two organizations that manage the rules for golf are extremely well-funded and populated? By well-paid people. Whereas the magic rules were, you know, not nearly as populated and not at all funded. You know, our our compensation for being a net rep came in the form of boxes of product. So,

4:45:06 pm – Daniel Lee:
Okay.

4:45:09 pm – Scott Marshall:
Getting somebody to put in the kind of time and effort necessary to maintain an effective document one that was always accurate was just well beyond the scope of the judge program.

4:45:22 pm – Daniel Lee:
benefits of switching to the model that that we have with Judge Academy, is that now that can just be my job,

4:45:27 pm – Scott Marshall:
Yeah, you know.

4:45:28 pm – Daniel Lee:
And that that actually just works out really well, and can serve can serve the conserve this need going forward. And even if going back and hunting down because I remember in some of these discussions regarding like this, OH repository, that was this fabled thing that people believe needed to exist. Was that? It would be very difficult to go through and gather all these things from blog posts and this thing and that thing and just all over the place and get in one place. That would be a monumental task in and of itself.

4:45:59 pm – Scott Marshall:
Yes.

4:45:59 pm – Daniel Lee:
That being said, we’ve That being said, we’ve had kind of a We’ve had kind of a break a little bit. From. The covid and a lapson. In-person organized play to where it’s kind of a nice place to be able to just start a thing now and yeah, maybe it’s not gonna be completely comprehensive but at the very least, give it a little bit of time and it will be close enough to be to be more

4:46:27 pm – Nathan Long:
Yeah.

4:46:27 pm – Daniel Lee:
than good enough, right?

4:46:29 pm – Scott Marshall:
Yep.

4:46:29 pm – Daniel Lee:
Right? So, so we’re in kind of a privilege thing and I privilege spot to be able to Right? So, so we’re in kind of a privilege thing and I privilege spot to be able to Right? thing and I privilege spot to be able thing and I privilege spot to be able to get something like that working. And I’m, I’m excited to be a part of that. we’re looking at. we’re looking at. So that is definitely something that we’re looking at. Which is part of the, what informed, the choice of today’s topic was that we want to see where we’re coming from. If we’re gonna start handling official rulings and whatnot, know where we come from, so we can see where we’re going,

4:46:53 pm – Scott Marshall:
Yep.

4:46:54 pm – Daniel Lee:
um, were there any other stories that you guys wanted to share with us? We still got a few more minutes here.

4:46:59 pm – Scott Marshall:
Well, I did want to fast up to something.

4:47:03 pm – Daniel Lee:
Okay.

4:47:03 pm – Scott Marshall:
That I think it’s probably my fault. That Shahrzad is not legal for play in any format.

4:47:09 pm – Nathan Long:
I mean perfectly fine in my book it means that I don’t have to deal with those kind of questions up. I only do it without a really rare base instead of like, you know, all the time YouTube on the list.

4:47:17 pm – Scott Marshall:
With.

4:47:19 pm – Nathan Long:
So I’m glad that is regulated to civil border these days that is where those effects belong.

4:47:25 pm – Scott Marshall:
Yeah. Yeah. Now, right before showers out was banned, there was an unusual spate of questions on the judge list. And it seemed like every one of them sparked arguments because there were so many corner cases that could be conceived of in a situation where you were playing a sub game. I think Andy sensed by frustration with having to deal with these questions over and over and he shared my frustration, not getting people to stop discussing, something that would never affect a sanctioned match of magic. And it wasn’t long after that that it was announced that the card was banned in all formats, where it would legal. So I I’m willing to take credit. Or blame.

4:48:15 pm – Nathan Long:
he took the head for us and we appreciate

4:48:16 pm – Scott Marshall:
Oh yeah.

4:48:18 pm – Daniel Lee:
It’s funny because I hear that being relegated silver border and my local shop that like deals mostly in the older formats. When they do, when we do team trios, it’s a legacy vintage and old school. So it’s certainly still legal in

4:48:30 pm – Scott Marshall:
Uh-huh.

4:48:32 pm – Daniel Lee:
93.94, so it’s not gone.

4:48:33 pm – Scott Marshall:
Yeah. Yeah.

4:48:36 pm – Nathan Long:
at least you’re not gonna resolve the

4:48:36 pm – Scott Marshall:
Yep.

4:48:37 pm – Nathan Long:
the burning wish in your sub game to pull the resolving sir, I thought into the sub game, so you of game.

4:48:41 pm – Daniel Lee:
That’s true. That is true. That’s not gonna happen. Thank goodness. Burning wish wasn’t around an alpha.

4:48:49 pm – Scott Marshall:
Yeah.

4:48:51 pm – Daniel Lee:
And if someone’s honestly gonna go deep enough to was a ring of my roof, right? Ring of my roof to go get or something. I don’t even know if that would work. I don’t remember if I stopped my head, but I know it was the original get something from outside the game, right?

4:49:04 pm – Scott Marshall:
Yeah.

4:49:04 pm – Nathan Long:
He, that’s familiar. Yeah.

4:49:06 pm – Daniel Lee:
Yeah, so so there was another question that when you might be able to answer, when did the Mtg Rules list serve end. Looks, I think it was around 2012-2013 something around there.

4:49:18 pm – Scott Marshall:
I want to say that’s about the time frame.

4:49:21 pm – Daniel Lee:
Okay. I don’t remember when my last DCI judge L.

4:49:27 pm – Nathan Long:
I had to go through.

4:49:27 pm – Daniel Lee:
Uh, email came.

4:49:29 pm – Nathan Long:
That’s gonna take some time, so

4:49:31 pm – Scott Marshall:
Yeah. I know that I looked at the way back

4:49:32 pm – Daniel Lee:
yeah, it looks like

4:49:35 pm – Scott Marshall:
machine to try and find some of the listserve archives.

4:49:39 pm – Daniel Lee:
Mmm.

4:49:41 pm – Scott Marshall:
And it pretty much is a useless endeavor because a lot of those lists were protected, they weren’t public.

4:49:48 pm – Daniel Lee:
Okay. Mmm.

4:49:49 pm – Scott Marshall:
so, the way back machine wouldn’t have had access to a lot of them, But I did find some records of some things and the listserved migrated to Was it. Yeah. I was judge apps. It never went DCI, family was a thing for a short time but it never handled the list functions just took over for the list. Before the list server was actually shut down.

4:50:12 pm – Daniel Lee:
Okay, I’m up. I’m looking at it right now. In the, my last email from DCI Judge L was three, sixteen twenty thirteen,

4:50:21 pm – Scott Marshall:
Okay.

4:50:22 pm – Daniel Lee:
though, just Well, just just under nine years ago.

4:50:22 pm – Scott Marshall:
And that was said, announcement saying

4:50:25 pm – Nathan Long:
I have a.

4:50:27 pm – Scott Marshall:
we’re showing it down.

4:50:31 pm – Nathan Long:
Link here, my bookmark that goes to the list, but it’s not one to load right now. So we’ll go with what they understood

4:50:36 pm – Scott Marshall:
No.

4:50:38 pm – Nathan Long:
2013. I guess that’s about right to my head.

4:50:43 pm – Daniel Lee:
I did want to make.

4:50:43 pm – Scott Marshall:
Another way. Oh, I was gonna say another answering

4:50:46 pm – Daniel Lee:
Go ahead.

4:50:47 pm – Scott Marshall:
that question of, When did that end actually two ways you could say, or not soon enough? or as soon as we could possibly make it happen,

4:50:59 pm – Daniel Lee:
Hey yeah I definitely remember. I remember because I originally had it on digest when I first joined it and then I was like, Okay wait I can actually do this so I can see these conversations in real time and I very

4:51:10 pm – Scott Marshall:
Yeah.

4:51:10 pm – Daniel Lee:
quickly after that was like, these need to go to their own folder. Oh my gosh, my email inbox was a mess.

4:51:15 pm – Scott Marshall:
Yes.

4:51:16 pm – Daniel Lee:
So yeah, that was a is really

4:51:16 pm – Scott Marshall:
Yes.

4:51:18 pm – Daniel Lee:
important. One person asked a question in chat. I want to make sure to answer fewer Black asks us to please not close judge apps and I want to make it clear. I have no control over that decision. That is not

4:51:28 pm – Scott Marshall:
Exactly.

4:51:29 pm – Nathan Long:
Yeah.

4:51:30 pm – Daniel Lee:
Judge Academy in any way. The judge apps is own and operated by private individuals that will keep it up as long as they deem fit. And unfortunately, I have no say or control over that decision. I love judge apps. I love it as a resource.

4:51:43 pm – Scott Marshall:
Yeah.

4:51:45 pm – Daniel Lee:
I have no say in that. Unfortunately, I just wanted to make that clear.

4:51:50 pm – Scott Marshall:
Major respect and props to the people behind that.

4:51:53 pm – Daniel Lee:
For sure. Yeah, it was really a labor of love for sure.

4:51:57 pm – Scott Marshall:
Yep.

4:51:59 pm – Daniel Lee:
All right. Is there any anything else that y’all wanted to mention before we wrap ourselves up here?

4:52:04 pm – Scott Marshall:
Yeah, and I’ll think of it right after we wrap up.

4:52:06 pm – Daniel Lee:
Actually yeah. Amen. To that, right?

4:52:09 pm – Scott Marshall:
Yep. I just want to thank you for putting this together, Daniel and

4:52:14 pm – Daniel Lee:
For sure.

4:52:14 pm – Scott Marshall:
you know, give me the the trip in a memory lane

4:52:17 pm – Daniel Lee:
Of course. Yeah, it’s it’s one of those for me too because I I’ve been apparently I’ve been judging as long as you were a net reps. So we that those things both started

4:52:24 pm – Scott Marshall:
Yeah.

4:52:26 pm – Daniel Lee:
in the same month. So

4:52:27 pm – Scott Marshall:
Yeah.

4:52:28 pm – Daniel Lee:
Um, I appreciate your time.

4:52:30 pm – Scott Marshall:
I’m sure I’m sure Wait wait There were Wait There were other net reps before Uncle Scott.

4:52:36 pm – Nathan Long:
I know I think Russell Lindman Lindeman was the forum center for I became there at my camera. I can’t find the email from it but yeah.

4:52:44 pm – Daniel Lee:
That name

4:52:44 pm – Nathan Long:
The weather.

4:52:44 pm – Scott Marshall:
Well.

4:52:45 pm – Daniel Lee:
A vague bell so that A vague bell. So that that could be right.

4:52:46 pm – Scott Marshall:
Yep.

4:52:47 pm – Daniel Lee:
Yeah.

4:52:47 pm – Scott Marshall:
Yeah, he he argued a lot of rules. did so officially for a while tested for Level Three and Pro tour Hawaii, the very first one in Honolulu, the one where we got the cool Hawaiian judge shirts,

4:53:02 pm – Daniel Lee:
Is that 2008?

4:53:05 pm – Scott Marshall:
It sounds about right.

4:53:06 pm – Daniel Lee:
2006 something around there. I feel like it was an even year.

4:53:09 pm – Scott Marshall:
Yeah. And then not long after that he and Andy had an exchange of ideas and Russell was no longer part of the judge program.

4:53:19 pm – Daniel Lee:
Oh, dear. Okay.

4:53:21 pm – Scott Marshall:
Yes.

4:53:21 pm – Nathan Long:
Okay.

4:53:24 pm – Scott Marshall:
Story time.

4:53:25 pm – Nathan Long:
He’s gonna fall. He’s gonna fall right? Became that rap so I didn’t know if you just got all the judge program, could be an explanation but he mayman explanation but he He said he became that rap. So I didn’t know if you just got all the judge program but I guess that could be an explanation but he mayman

4:53:34 pm – Scott Marshall:
Right.

4:53:35 pm – Nathan Long:
forced them.

4:53:36 pm – Scott Marshall:
He saw the wisdom and no longer participating.

4:53:40 pm – Daniel Lee:
Okay.

4:53:42 pm – Nathan Long:
All right, there.

4:53:42 pm – Daniel Lee:
Um Brian Perelman, made a B Pearl. Just wanted to make a just wanted to make a note that Paul Baronet who is a glorious human being. And very I’m a very big fan of theirs. He’s the one in charge of Judge apps. And if you want to throw money to say, Hey, this is for keeping judge apps alive. I’m sure it would not be turned down. um, so, Yeah. Thank you guys very much for your time. We’re gonna go ahead and wrap this up.

4:54:15 pm – Nathan Long:
Mr. Hosting

4:54:17 pm – Daniel Lee:
Say that again.

4:54:17 pm – Nathan Long:
thanks for hosting us.

4:54:19 pm – Daniel Lee:
Yeah, you’re very welcome.

4:54:19 pm – Scott Marshall:
Yeah.

4:54:20 pm – Daniel Lee:
I’m I was very happy to

4:54:22 pm – Nathan Long:
Some interfaces. I mean, covid, those things to where I don’t see people all the time, I live just without the middle of nowhere. I mean, it’s gone but I live in the office corner of the same Scots.

4:54:35 pm – Scott Marshall:
About five and a half hour drive in good weather. And it’s almost networked weather

4:54:38 pm – Nathan Long:
Okay.

4:54:39 pm – Scott Marshall:
between there and here.

4:54:41 pm – Daniel Lee:
yeah.

4:54:42 pm – Nathan Long:
He the mountains are very scary especially at this time of year, right? Just we just had a huge snowstorm on Sunday, Monday.

4:54:48 pm – Scott Marshall:
Yep.

4:54:51 pm – Nathan Long:
so,

4:54:52 pm – Daniel Lee:
Well, it’s funny because it’s starting to feel a little bit more normal for me because I’m leaving, like, where we’re doing our first week stuff. And then I’m leaving for Hunter Burton this weekend, and then I’m

4:54:59 pm – Scott Marshall:
oh,

4:55:00 pm – Daniel Lee:
doing the exact same thing a month from now, because I have Scg Con, Dallas also in DFW. So it’s just like, I’m just just running over there back and forth, a couple of times and it feels a little bit more normal, that’s for sure.

4:55:13 pm – Scott Marshall:
It’s good to get back to traveling

4:55:13 pm – Nathan Long:
Yeah.

4:55:14 pm – Scott Marshall:
for magic, isn’t it?

4:55:16 pm – Daniel Lee:
Mm-hmm.

4:55:16 pm – Nathan Long:
I didn’t get.

4:55:17 pm – Daniel Lee:
There’s just a lot more There’s just a lot more masks involved.

4:55:19 pm – Nathan Long:
I don’t get out very often but I did enjoy the times, I didn’t go to a magic events. So hopefully,

4:55:24 pm – Scott Marshall:
Yep.

4:55:25 pm – Daniel Lee:
Right on.

4:55:26 pm – Nathan Long:
soon. Fingers crossed.

4:55:28 pm – Scott Marshall:
Yep. Yep.

4:55:30 pm – Daniel Lee:
All right, thanks very much, everyone. I wanted to thank Nathan Long and Scott Marshall for giving us their time today and I hope this was a educational and amusing for you as a buzz for me. And so, thanks for much. We’ll be back with our first week series tomorrow, where I’ll be talking to Scott Larabee about tournament policy. So I’m really excited for that.

4:55:49 pm – Scott Marshall:
Nice.

4:55:51 pm – Daniel Lee:
Thanks very much. And we’re gonna Seal. When we see you.

4:55:57 pm – Scott Marshall:
All right.