Judge Academy > Transcript – March First Week: Mock Tournaments

Transcript – March First Week: Mock Tournaments

8:31:11 am – Jonah Kellman:
Good morning. Good afternoon. I’m Jonah joined today. Good evening. By Daniel Lee, we’re going to be talking about Mark Tournaments. Before we get started a little bit of introduction for Matthew Fox, our community champion. Matthew is In their own words. So dedicated to their role. That instead of being here with you, they’re on a very well deserved honeymoon in on a beach in Mexico. In any case, the two of us are going to talk about mock tournaments We’re thrilled to see live events, slowly coming back and safe ways but for a lot of us, it can be a little nerve-racking to go back out onto the floor, we haven’t taken a judge called, maybe in two years or more or maybe even ever if you certified more recently. Mock tournaments are great way to get the experience of judging an event.

8:32:11 am – Jonah Kellman:
You get everything from judge calls to logistics around pairing matches errors, and it’s a very low risk, low stress environment. Judge Academy has received a bunch of applications to host mock term. It’s from a bunch of folks around the world. And so, we want to take it this opportunity to just talk about how we see mock tournaments, our philosophy, our experiences with them, and share that with you. Well, mock tournaments are, of course, a great way to build and sustain a judge community there. A lot about practicing our knowledge of rules and policy Hello. Daniel and logistics. Hello me. So we’re here to talk about that. So we’re gonna start off, just With a couple of questions. And then, Daniel and I are just gonna talk for an hour, maybe one or two

8:32:46 am – Daniel Lee:
He?

8:32:47 am – Jonah Kellman:
tangents along the way, but Daniel, what is a mock tournament? What experiences do you have with them? Maybe a story.

8:32:55 am – Daniel Lee:
So oh how you know? Me, Jonah. So, um, so a mark tournament was a, I remember when I first heard the idea, this was back in about 2017, This is just after I moved down here to LA and one of the local judge leaders of one, by the name of Angela Chandler, she was having this really strong idea of creating a different kind of conference, where It would be a lot like players judges, taking live calls and a tournament. But it would actually be a tournament where some of these calls were staged or pre-planned as it were and then there would be time for debriefing and there would be and you would staff the event with the judges that we’re looking to learn the attendees and the players in the tournament would be, it would be the presenters because they’d be the ones giving this scenarios in a, like, sort of They’re in a simulation of a real tournament. And so we ended up making this happen in late 2017 and it was a really exciting is really fun event. There was a lot of people there and I’m sure we’ll get into more of the details is going on, but like, it was definitely a serious. A very successful proof of concept of can we get some experienced more more experienced judges? In this case, the more experience level twos and level threes in the area and some folks, even from Premad the area, I like it, this was held in Southern California, but we had people from Arizona from northern California from Nevada, from all over. What was the USA Southwest region at the time? And I was very successful. It was very good learning experience for a lot of people is a lot of fun to put on. And it was definitely a served as a As an inspiration for more going forward. I was at one other Mark tournament that was held in Las Vegas. After that I want to say this was in 2019 is 2018 or 2019. I’m uncertain when when exactly that one was but it was smaller, a lot more low-key and had a little bit of a different structure to it, but it was still really a great learning experience was really cool event and I, I love my tournaments, there are a lot of fun. And as long as they’re treated with a little bit of care, they can be an extremely valuable tool for judge, for judge learning, really.

8:35:34 am – Jonah Kellman:
Yeah, I’ve only been to one mock, turn myself. And it was an absolute. There were at some points, a couple logistical hiccups with how things were run but the entire day was just my favorite thing ever. My favorite thing at an event is when I take a call with somebody else, either, I get to shadow them or they get to shadow me and we get to see how the other person works. And then we get maybe 30 seconds or a minute to talk about that call and then we’re like, Oh there’s another call and we go off to do that or we have task and we have to split off

8:36:05 am – Daniel Lee:
Mmm.

8:36:05 am – Jonah Kellman:
One of the amazing things about mock tournaments is that You can you can’t ignore calls entirely but you can turn to players and just be like, Hey do you is this like a manufactured caller? Do you actually need our assistance? Because we’d love to continue talking about our previous column. They’re like, Oh yeah, no, we can fix that. We have created this scenario, or We could just wait on our game for a couple minutes while you talk about that. And then we’ll bring you in Because the players are also in many cases certified judges, not always, but

8:36:40 am – Daniel Lee:
Right.

8:36:41 am – Jonah Kellman:
they are there with the understanding that the goal is to not win the tournament or complete all of these matches magic but to help improve the community as a whole. And so you get to spend more time in that mentorship position either helping somebody learn or learning yourself and it adds a bunch of very interesting dynamics that you don’t normally get an attorney. You can Run through your investigation into some sort of card counting. Scenario or like handle a gameplay error or whatever sort. And then after you finish handling the ruling with whoever you’re working with, You talk about it and then you go and talk with the players and be like, Hey can you give me feedback on how I asked my questions, how I held myself at the table? My body language, and all that sort of stuff and they’re like, Oh yeah, we don’t Our game is as important as teaching you and talking to you about what you can do better and what we really liked and that’s just so cool.

8:37:41 am – Daniel Lee:
So, it’s interesting. The And in the chat, minor deviation was like, Oh, is this real a manufactured problem? Very relatable. That’s really funny. So it’s interesting because the, the first one, the big SoCal mock tournament? Let’s say which is how I’m gonna refer to it because it’s gonna come up a lot in this discussion. We so we also didn’t didn’t need all these judges responding to every single call but that was mostly because we had a ton of judges working the event. Like it was the most well, staffed event I’ve ever seen. Think like a almost a Grand Prix size staff for like 60 players, like our

8:38:25 am – Jonah Kellman:
Yeah. Yeah.

8:38:25 am – Daniel Lee:
deck checks team had like six people on it for 60 players, like it was

8:38:30 am – Jonah Kellman:
The.

8:38:31 am – Daniel Lee:
It was patently ridiculous.

8:38:32 am – Jonah Kellman:
Determine I’m

8:38:33 am – Daniel Lee:
Just how many judges there were? So, if three judges were on one call, as in one person actually taking the call and two people watching. And then there was another call, two tables down. There were still three other judges that could take it. Like it was just there was just so many that it worked out really well to send multiple judges to single calls and they ended up being a really nice ratio of calls to judges.

8:38:56 am – Jonah Kellman:
Yeah, the tournament I went to had 15 or 16 players and eight judges on staff. So we had decent floor coverage in any case. Let’s let’s start with the basics and

8:39:04 am – Daniel Lee:
Mmm.

8:39:07 am – Jonah Kellman:
work up from there, so

8:39:08 am – Daniel Lee:
Okay.

8:39:09 am – Jonah Kellman:
Basic idea and goals of a mock tournament. It I mean it’s a tournament that has the lowest possible stakes.

8:39:18 am – Daniel Lee:
Right.

8:39:18 am – Jonah Kellman:
It’s even more casual than your casual play at your local game store. Because even if casual play has no prizes on the line, people are still playing to win because that’s why they showed up, they’re there or at the very least, they’re

8:39:32 am – Daniel Lee:
Right.

8:39:33 am – Jonah Kellman:
they’re what they to play their game.

8:39:37 am – Daniel Lee:
Exactly. And it’s it’s magic playing. The game, usually means attempting to beat your opponent, right?

8:39:44 am – Jonah Kellman:
Some people play magic and very fun

8:39:44 am – Daniel Lee:
Whereas

8:39:46 am – Jonah Kellman:
ways.

8:39:47 am – Daniel Lee:
I said usually Judge Tower exists.

8:39:48 am – Jonah Kellman:
Yeah.

8:39:51 am – Daniel Lee:
I mean, you know

8:39:51 am – Jonah Kellman:
Oh God. Don’t don’t run a judge Tower Mocktard with that just seems like a

8:39:57 am – Daniel Lee:
That’s that.

8:39:57 am – Jonah Kellman:
terrible idea.

8:39:58 am – Daniel Lee:
Yeah, no that’s gonna that’s gonna miss a lot of serious points, but no. So When it comes to so you touched on how serious it was. And yeah, absolutely. In a lot of ways, a mark tournament is a drill, right? It’s a, we’re acting like This is real life. We’re acting like these things are actually happening. They’re not. So the stakes are the stakes are not there, but you still get to go through the motions and you get to treat it as though, there are stakes. Just you know, you just got this

8:40:29 am – Jonah Kellman:
Yeah.

8:40:30 am – Daniel Lee:
really robust net under. You is what you’re working with in that if you accidentally, DQ the wrong player, you haven’t actually ruined someone’s day.

8:40:40 am – Jonah Kellman:
Right. At the mock Turner. And I was at one of the Right. And I was at one of the And I was at one of the

8:40:47 am – Daniel Lee:
Up.

8:40:48 am – Jonah Kellman:
disqualified. If you just want to go back to your table and finish playing your match, So you’re disqualified. If you just want to go back to your table and finish playing your match, we’ll get the next round, started for you. Just a couple minutes because we can’t Depending on the mock turn, you’re running and we’ll get into this a little bit more if you actually

8:41:00 am – Daniel Lee:
Mm-hmm.

8:41:01 am – Jonah Kellman:
If you actually removed, everybody udq from the tournament you would run

8:41:04 am – Daniel Lee:
You would run out of players.

8:41:05 am – Jonah Kellman:
out of tournament real fast.

8:41:07 am – Daniel Lee:
yeah, I think, I think a few players in in the big SoCal, one definitely got Dq’d at least twice throughout the course of the tournament with

8:41:15 am – Jonah Kellman:
That’s generally not a stat. You want to have, but

8:41:17 am – Daniel Lee:
No, especially when these are like, Level two level three judges that are getting disqualified from termites. Not not a good look.

8:41:24 am – Jonah Kellman:
Not a good look.

8:41:25 am – Daniel Lee:
But so, so to touch on that. So, the reason you would have players getting Dq’d is a combination of at the big SoCal. One, we had what we called manufactured scenarios. So the folks that were that had signed up for the conference as a presenter, those folks were given individual cards and a scenarios on an index card that would describe what they were supposed to do with that card. So I remember, in my case, I was given a hieroglyphic illumination. That’s a four mana instant, from Amenkat it’s draw two cards and has cycling for one blue. Um, so I was given that just in case the the tournament was four pack sealed. So in case, I didn’t open a card, draw spell in my pool. I could, I had this spell that I could like splash for it or something. And so I could get that card into my pool and at some point cast it and not have the blue mana for it. So like that. So the scenario would be something like you’re going to commit a gables violation and you’re going to do so by casting how I go through elimination without Blue Mana. Like, so that’s the scenarios can be just that simple. They do not need to be complex because the goal is for folks to get experience doing these things. And I can tell you from lots of personal experience, Not every call is a brain breaker. A lot of them are pretty straightforward, run of the mill, things, and being able to walk up to a table and expect that it’s might be difficult call, but it’s not always gonna be, is kind of is a nice expectation to build in and that’s part of what comes with the experience. And that’s really the whole goal of mock tournament is to give that experience when the an actual live tournament may or may not be available.

8:43:17 am – Jonah Kellman:
Right? And that’s one of the things that separates a mock tournament, from something like a judge calls live seminar. At a more traditional conference at

8:43:23 am – Daniel Lee:
Right.

8:43:25 am – Jonah Kellman:
something like Judge calls live. You’ll have a scenario that is relatively scripted with a judge and then an audience of 5 10, 20, 25 people watching and you go through that one scenario and then maybe you have a second, maybe a third, if you can fit it into an hour. But you’re talking about the policy of that one question, the body language and approach on that one question.

8:43:51 am – Daniel Lee:
Right.

8:43:51 am – Jonah Kellman:
And while it is a very, very valuable tool because you get to see somebody else approach table, you get to dissect the Judge Collins entirety in a mock tournament. Not only do you get to have that opportunity yourself. If you say Don’t volunteer judge calls live but you get to have that experience. A dozen times twice that very easily and As you mentioned. It’s so, so valuable for Just getting the reps in for simple calls just like yep. It was a simple relatively simple dexterity error looking at extra cards when I went to draw, I accidentally flipped the card off, the top of my deck, it flip face up, both of us, saw it. What do we do here? And that’s a relatively simple fix both, it regular, rules, enforcement level and competitive. But if you haven’t handled it before

8:44:42 am – Daniel Lee:
Yep.

8:44:45 am – Jonah Kellman:
you need to say, okay, this is The issue. This is how we’re going to fix it. How can I explain this in a way that is clear to the players? How do I make it? So that the players don’t accidentally shuffle incorrect cards or anything like that? And just doing that over and over and over again, being able to get feedback on each iteration. I think that iterative.

8:45:05 am – Daniel Lee:
Yep.

8:45:07 am – Jonah Kellman:
Element of mock tournaments is another great distinction from a seminar where you get to take the same call or similar call over and

8:45:12 am – Daniel Lee:
Her.

8:45:14 am – Jonah Kellman:
over again.

8:45:15 am – Daniel Lee:
Right. And just and just being able to like kind of see the tournament with an amount of calls because any of us that have worked especially if you’ve worked like a a medium-sized like a 30 to 40 percent turn. If you work that solo, this could apply to a Friday night Magic or a Tuesday night modern or What have you for me the the modern trios event that I did a couple of weekends ago comes to mind. Um, sometimes you don’t get a lot of calls, like Sometimes the players have just handled it by themselves or just by random. Happenstance not a lot of calls come up. So, one of the things that was nice about having these manufactured scenarios was that we could guarantee that some amount of calls were going to happen.

8:46:00 am – Jonah Kellman:
Yeah.

8:46:00 am – Daniel Lee:
So it’s not So it’s not like it just cool here. I’m gonna, I’m gonna bring on this this level one to work with this tournament with me and I’m gonna give them all this experience. And then you go three rounds without with like two, interesting calls.

8:46:13 am – Jonah Kellman:
Or like it’s just like, Judge can I

8:46:13 am – Daniel Lee:
Right.

8:46:16 am – Jonah Kellman:
have Oracle text for lightning bolt? You’re like, Yes it

8:46:21 am – Daniel Lee:
Yeah.

8:46:21 am – Jonah Kellman:
here and then like, alright, thanks and that’s your call for the night and you’re like, I Here. and that’s your call for the night that’s your call for the night and you’re like, I hope you got some logistics experience, but

8:46:34 am – Daniel Lee:
Education and education and experience really are the big ones, right? So,

8:46:37 am – Jonah Kellman:
Yeah.

8:46:39 am – Daniel Lee:
one of the things that we haven’t really touched on you guys, use that shot a little bit was when it came to When I came when it comes to the mock tournament. Yeah. One of the decisions you kind of have to make is what rules enforcement level. Are we going to run this at?

8:46:58 am – Jonah Kellman:
Yeah.

8:46:58 am – Daniel Lee:
Right. So for the the big SoCal conference, it was We ran it at competitive rules enforcement levels. So everything was run as though this was a at the time, this made that PPG cues were the big part of the system, right? So having that amount of competitive experiences really helpful, especially for a lot of the L ones that we’re looking to move up to L2. They needed competitive experience in order to have a good chance of passing the L2 test. So we really so the idea there was literally just give them exposure. Like give your level ones a chance to use the material, they were studying, right? So they were studying game rules violation, looking at extra cards hidden card air. All these penalties that exist at competitive but not regular and it’s all well and good to read the document and Try and do your best, understand the words, but you need to take the calls like you need to do it and use it and just run through it and the more you use it, the more second nature, it’s become, it becomes.

8:48:05 am – Jonah Kellman:
Absolutely. how many times I read through times I read through Absolutely. I remember, I don’t know how many times I read through the Infraction procedure guide, the IPG before, it did not stick reading through the document. It took actually going to an event and taking calls and handling 17, Looking at extra cards with courser of crew Fix in 17 game rule violations for not refueling. Also, with Corsair of crew Fix before, like, my brain was just like, okay, This is how these work and taking those calls or similar calls in a mock. Tournament accelerates the learning process, massively.

8:48:40 am – Daniel Lee:
Absolutely.

8:48:41 am – Jonah Kellman:
But a mock tournament. Can also be run at Regular Rules Enforcement Level. One of the great things about running at regular is that the jar is a little bit less strict than the IPG we can say. And so there’s a little bit less of a

8:48:57 am – Daniel Lee:
Mm-hmm.

8:49:00 am – Jonah Kellman:
focus on the exact precise answer, which is very important competitive but it regular we’re focused on this broader philosophy and It’s a little bit easier to avoid weird policy corners. You don’t have to get into a conversation of. Okay. Is this considered a generally detrimental trigger or not? Let’s have a 10-minute conversation about that or Where is the line between? This and hce, which is everybody knows according to Sam the best infraction.

8:49:34 am – Daniel Lee:
You, hey,

8:49:35 am – Jonah Kellman:
but, at regular, you also don’t have to worry about the paperwork that comes with competitive rules enforcement competitive rules, enforcement level, but, At regular. worry about the paperwork that comes with competitive rules, enforcement level, one of the important things is being able to Transcribe or write down an infraction that occurs at competitive. So you can pass it along to your scorekeeper or at least put it into the system, Where is it regular? You can see the problem address the problem and move on. And so if you’re just getting your feet under you or you’re running one of your first few events, just getting those reps in without having to deal with that, additional paperwork can be a huge boon.

8:50:06 am – Daniel Lee:
For sure. Absolutely. And for me personally and it a lot of this is informed by sort of like how I how my exposure to the program and whatnot. And like, I was already gay, like, very infranchised L2, by the time mock tournament started entering the scene and I, and so, for me, In where the program was and where organized play was at that point. If someone wanted competitive Ariel experience, there were plenty of stores running Friday night magic, you could go and Negotiate some way of being like, Hey, can I be the judge for this? Can I run this for you and And a lot of the stores in southern California, at least were really receptive to that. So the the regular Ariel experience was very widely available, so it made a lot more sense at the time for our big mock tournament. This big experiment we were running to be competitive because that was the thing that we wanted a lot of people to get more experience at that. There was only so many opportunities for, for judges, to work. Those kinds of events and also there’s a lot more, like, there’s a lot more policy to work with in a

8:51:16 am – Jonah Kellman:
Right.

8:51:19 am – Daniel Lee:
competitive event. There’s a lot more details, there’s a lot more work with in a competitive event. There’s a lot more prescribed fixes for things whereas the judging at regular document gives a lot of like Yeah here’s like four or five different infractions that fall under this category. Here’s how you handle them for like even just looking at gameplay errors under the IPG like You’ve got very specific Okay, did they get a card? They mix. Pay card where there’s no, there’s no public information that we can use to fix. This was a card scene that wasn’t supposed to be was Was a trigger missed on anything like this very specific scenarios that result in very specific fixes. The goal, of course, being that stuff is handled. Consistently from tournament to tournament, right? So if I make this, if I make this error in In one tournament at home. Then my local city on a Saturday and then three weeks later. I’m, I fly to a big to a bigger tournament. It’s handled the same way, right? Like, That’s the sort of the goals this consistency across tournaments and the best way to ride a bike. The same way is to practice writing a bike. You might say.

8:52:38 am – Jonah Kellman:
Yeah. Huh.

8:52:39 am – Daniel Lee:
Oh yeah.

8:52:39 am – Jonah Kellman:
And it helps conversations with other judges because they can be like and here’s the underlying philosophy of this. This is why we don’t do it in these other ways because it causes these issues

8:52:50 am – Daniel Lee:
Mm-hmm.

8:52:52 am – Jonah Kellman:
Both competitive and regular real mockturnments have their place but it’s important for you if you’re considering running one. Who is your target audience? Are you looking to focus on newer

8:53:04 am – Daniel Lee:
Right.

8:53:06 am – Jonah Kellman:
judges who have fewer events under their belt of while you can get regular rules enforcement level experience under your belt at your local store with relative ease compared to competitive because competitive events are so much less frequent it’s still so, so valuable to work with another judge and see, all of that experience at the mock Turner. And I, yet I was at, we had easily a century of experience if not 200 years of judge experience in that room. And for somebody who’s been judging for six months, All of that experience is a massive, massive boon.

8:53:46 am – Daniel Lee:
For sure. Absolutely. Um And so we can we can talk about like how how mock tournaments allow for that mentorship time, right? Since that’s definitely been a big. It’s a big issue with sort of the state of the world whatnot. Is this in-person mentorship of someone almost literally by being able to take you into their wing and sort of teach you the things that the documents don’t tell you? so, the way that we ran the big SoCal mock tournament, was that? Ever. It was that each of the all the judges were organized into teams much like you would be at a large Grand Prix style event. There was a deck checks team, there was a paper team there was a floor team etc, etc. And so these teams were usually in the five to seven judge range about in terms of size and the goal. Was that every single time a judge took a call that they would be shadowed by at least one other judge. Now a lot of times so not every player in the tournament was a presenter. For example, I was a presenter at this so I had I had my higher Gothic illumination scenarios but there were a bunch of players there that were just players. They were, they were local tournament players. That would just that we just offered the chance to show up and play in the thing. And so, the goals, like, just play it like a regular like four pack sealed and if stuff comes up, call a judge. And so then the goal was if, if you If you had a judge, call Judge came over handled it. The idea was that you’d have a small, little bit of paper for notes or whatever and you’d write down some notes about feedback for that judge. And often like we did time the rounds and so we said that this the feedback was not supposed to be delivered immediately, it was supposed to be just saved for save for later. Between the rounds, the judges from the would gather in their teams. And so there was there was a solid half an hour block or so between the rounds. And so, the judges, the, the judges, like the ones, working the event, the attendees were would gather in their teams and would sort of, debrief the round. How did it go, what could we do? Better things like that. And during that time, the players that had feedback for judges that the interact with would go and sort of go to the teams of the players of the judges and be like, Hey, I have feedback for. So and so like they could be taking aside and giving that feedback separately or if it was if everyone was comfortable with it, they could just read the feedback out loud. Yeah, you took our call and I thought you did this really well. I thought this thing could have been handled better all. So policy says, You do x. You did why? That’s not correct. And things like that. So it was a really great way to. So it wasn’t like immediate as they like, Okay, this this interaction just happened. Here’s what you should know about it. So we didn’t get that as much unless there was like feedback from the shadow being judge or something like that, which also definitely happened. But, and that’s good. Like there’s just feedback coming from all sorts of different places because the whole goal is to get it. Right? Like that’s the coldest thing is to it’s set up. So that feedback is easy to obtain and plentiful.

8:57:10 am – Jonah Kellman:
Yeah, it’s important. If you’re organizing one of these to have an idea of how you want to control time because that’s something that you get to do in a mock tournament in a real tournament, the

8:57:20 am – Daniel Lee:
For sure.

8:57:21 am – Jonah Kellman:
goal is to spend as little time as possible at the tournament you want to be able to get home before the sun sets or Before the sun rises the next day you want to turn over rounds quickly. As soon as everybody’s done playing you start the next round at a mock tournament. That is not the case at all. You have that opportunity to have

8:57:39 am – Daniel Lee:
Mm-hmm.

8:57:41 am – Jonah Kellman:
that debrief you can take time to extend rounds. A general recommendation because the play itself is not as critical potentially. If you’re gonna have three or four rounds, maybe cut those around down to 40 minutes so that you have 40 minutes of play some time extension and then you have time to debrief if you’re doing full 50 minute rounds and then your time extensions and then the extra 30 minutes it can get a little bit out of hand in part

8:58:11 am – Daniel Lee:
Mmm.

8:58:11 am – Jonah Kellman:
because I mean, I don’t know how long I guess. How long do you think the average match gets in a tournament with regards to time extensions like just in a grand Prix or an open like your average match is not getting a whole lot of time over the course of the entire tournament.

8:58:32 am – Daniel Lee:
Correct. Yeah. Like the the amount of time you have to allow for for time extensions. I mean, obviously you’re gonna have a time extensions but also just end a batch procedure, right?

8:58:42 am – Jonah Kellman:
Yeah.

8:58:42 am – Daniel Lee:
Like some folks will go to time and that will take some time and actually with the sort of one of the hidden benefits of using a shorter around like a 40 or 45 minute round is that you’re gonna have a bunch of mattress go to time. You know it’s great for matches going to time experience and catching slow play

8:59:02 am – Jonah Kellman:
Yes, and

8:59:03 am – Daniel Lee:
But so yeah, huh.

8:59:04 am – Jonah Kellman:
On top of that experience, running end of round, which is one of my favorite things to do.

8:59:09 am – Daniel Lee:
Uh-huh. You would logistics person, huh?

8:59:12 am – Jonah Kellman:
I would.

8:59:14 am – Daniel Lee:
Oh, now I miss Purple Fox and I’m sad.

8:59:18 am – Jonah Kellman:
I love using a clipboard. I’ve gotten to use a clipboard pretty frequently recently and oh, just taking it. Anyways and around is

8:59:25 am – Daniel Lee:
That’s pretty on grand for you to be fair.

8:59:26 am – Jonah Kellman:
Yeah, that’s a different discussion.

8:59:28 am – Daniel Lee:
Yeah. Just for just for context. Purple Fox is a piece of software that is useful for running the Yeah. Purple Fox is a piece of software that is useful for running. The end of round procedure We use a grand prize and magic festival all the time and it’s currently not currently not not accessible at the moment Then I tried to run a large tournament tried to do and around a large tournament without it at the end of 2021 and it was different experience for sure.

8:59:55 am – Jonah Kellman:
Yes. But one of the things that you do have to take into consideration, is how you’re handling the time extensions in the sternum because if you have say, two investigations and a deck check and Maybe a couple of other calls at one match, you’re gonna be putting down plus 30 on that match slip at some

9:00:15 am – Daniel Lee:
Oh, sure.

9:00:15 am – Jonah Kellman:
point and

9:00:15 am – Daniel Lee:
Yeah.

9:00:16 am – Jonah Kellman:
And you And you absolutely don’t to be doing that so keep it keep, just keep that in mind. Maybe cap time extensions. If you’re gonna be running a mock tournament, just be like Issue the time extension. if they’re still playing after 10 minutes over, That’s when we call it. So you still have the opportunity to experience that end of round but without making the event run twice as long as it needs to

9:00:39 am – Daniel Lee:
Right.

9:00:41 am – Jonah Kellman:
but, We’ve been talking a lot about judge. Call experience handling, the calls themselves, but mock tournaments have more utility than merely giving you experience for judge calls of rules and policy. I have to speak up and talk a little

9:00:58 am – Daniel Lee:
For sure.

9:00:59 am – Jonah Kellman:
bit more about logistics.

9:01:01 am – Daniel Lee:
Of you would.

9:01:02 am – Jonah Kellman:
It’s in my contract. Um, as I mentioned, of course, you have endive round where time is called and you track your outstanding matches figure out who’s playing, who hasn’t reported? And this is an opportunity potentially for scenarios to come into play. Maybe you have a player who took their match slip or if you’re reporting digitally just forgot to hit submit. They thought they hit it.

9:01:24 am – Daniel Lee:
Okay.

9:01:25 am – Jonah Kellman:
Maybe Maybe their phone Maybe their phone disconnected from the Internet the Internet or something along those lines, they ran out of power and they Maybe their phone disconnected from the Internet or something along those lines. They ran out of power and they just forgot. How do you handle that? The end of round figuring out

9:01:33 am – Daniel Lee:
Right.

9:01:35 am – Jonah Kellman:
pairings. Maybe there’s a miss pair issue that There’s a lot of logistical issues There’s a lot of logistical issues that you can pairings. you need to figure out. you need to figure out. There’s a lot of logistical issues that you can do and those can either be scripted or

9:01:48 am – Daniel Lee:
For sure. Um so like so the way that we the way

9:01:51 am – Jonah Kellman:
You yeah.

9:01:53 am – Daniel Lee:
we did that, one of the things that that was also really nice. Let’s uh, there’s way we did that, one of the things that was also really nice. Let’s uh, there’s a concept that you might hear a more experienced judges talk about called rocks and reaches.

9:02:03 am – Jonah Kellman:
Yes.

9:02:03 am – Daniel Lee:
So a generally speaking, when you are staffing a tournament, if it’s a, if it’s a multiple determine that has multiple judges in it, the idea of a rock is a rock is a person that you can put on staff. That you are very confident will be solid in their role. Whether that’s specific to the role that you’re assigning them. Or whether that’s because this person is just very good at everything. They do you having rocks? Accessible in each role, is a great way to support the success for your tournament. Reaches our folks who are untested less experienced or whatever and you’re going to have these people. So making sure that you balance your rocks with your reaches is a good way to both support tournament success. And also to get people experience and mentorship because the rocks will teach the reaches, it’s a natural thing. That happens when you put them on the same team. One of the neat things about a mock tournament is your entire staff can be reaches. And that’s okay.

9:03:06 am – Jonah Kellman:
Yes.

9:03:08 am – Daniel Lee:
So, a that was a feature for us when we were planning the, the big SoCal one, because the folks that were looking to Get into team leading at Grand Prix and Magicfests. Those folks could be our team leads for this mock tournament. So we would have a sort of lesser or middle experienced L2. That was maybe not quite ready to read a team toss them in the deep end. You are now leading deck checks for this tournament and some things would break and that would be okay because we’re working with outstakes here. So it was a really neat opportunity to give folks a in effect, a crash course in. Here’s how you lead a team with a job. One thing that strikes me is interesting about moving into. This, is that We’re still getting used to using event link like yeah, we’ve had technically had it for close to a couple of years at this point but there haven’t been a lot of tournaments being run with it. I ran into 15 new problems with event link at my modern team trios a couple weeks ago and I used the heck out of it at Pacsunplugged just a couple months ago. Right? And so I I was like Okay yeah I feel like I’m pretty good with this thing. Oh there’s 13 new problems that I didn’t even think of because I didn’t run a team tournament before on this thing.

9:04:34 am – Jonah Kellman:
Also, it’s a logistical challenges, pop up.

9:04:36 am – Daniel Lee:
Yeah exactly. Right. And and so being able to run this tournament like it’s a tournament 15 times. Its size means you have more than enough people to handle any problems that come up. But also that all these people get to see, oh, here’s a thing that can break at a tournament. I’m literally seeing this in front of me. Let’s figure out how to handle this and now that’s another tool you’ve gotten your bag.

9:05:02 am – Jonah Kellman:
Right now, I do want to touch a little bit more on the staff structure with regards to the rocks, and the reaches. It’s what if you’re organizing

9:05:10 am – Daniel Lee:
Sure.

9:05:11 am – Jonah Kellman:
If you’re organizing If you’re organizing a mock tournament, I think it’s very important to figure out what your goals are as the organizer. Who do you want to support the most As Demonstein mentions. You can have somebody learning to score. Keep you can have a reach in that

9:05:27 am – Daniel Lee:
Yeah.

9:05:28 am – Jonah Kellman:
role. You can have a reach in the role of head judge. Team lead floor judges and you can staff it with Everybody being a reach. I like to throw in a couple of rocks in there that way you, make sure you have, while you’re gonna have some rocks in your judge players having some in the judge staff means that

9:05:44 am – Daniel Lee:
Mm-hmm.

9:05:45 am – Jonah Kellman:
they have a little bit more flexibility to pull somebody aside and be like, Okay, let’s talk about this, as it’s happening rather than waiting to go on and you can choose to format that in a variety of ways at the mock tournament that I attended the team leads were all very experienced. Team leads all of them had been judging for many, many years had been level two for many years, a ton of competitive experience. Whereas all of our floor judges were very, very new. And our head judge was an L1 seeking L2 at, and getting this comp rail experience. And I mean the our head judge was relatively experienced to our floor judges. But there was a lot of support coming from the team leads in both directions. Giving the head judge the support that they needed and giving the floor, judges, somebody to lean against when they’re like Okay, I have no idea what I’m doing here. I need to talk to somebody about this and if it all reaches you do run of

9:06:43 am – Daniel Lee:
Hmm. Yeah.

9:06:46 am – Jonah Kellman:
risk of the team lead being overwhelmed with their task and unable to help members of their team, but you also want to make sure that you get that mix of experience in there.

9:06:57 am – Daniel Lee:
So, so I will say the way that we handle, so we did, we did allow for some of that, in that hour, we So, to touch on Dumenstein’s Point, we had two scorekeepers that kind of split off the scorekeeper duties. There was also a third one there who was just there to supervise because In scorekeeping more so than other rules but also in other roles, sometimes you’ll run into a situation and if you’re not sure how to handle it, you might just hit a brick wall and you’re just like, I don’t actually know how to fix this and I don’t have any good ideas. So like one, so avoiding. That is a great reason to have some rock scattered into your into your staff. Like you said, in our case, We had a number of those. Like both of our head. Judges first off hat. So we had two head judges, the turns out.

9:07:55 am – Jonah Kellman:
Redundancy is good.

9:07:56 am – Daniel Lee:
There’s a lot of There’s a lot of appeals. There’s a lot of appeals and a lot of investigations. So having at least two head judges, I think is a good idea. But in this case, while they had not had very much experience. Head judging that many judges underneath them. Like they just hadn’t had that experience at all because that doesn’t come up a lot. They were still very experienced each in the individual role so they were rocks in their own, right? Even if they were a reach in that role, if that makes sense, right?

9:08:27 am – Jonah Kellman:
Yeah.

9:08:30 am – Daniel Lee:
Right? So and I think that worked out really So and I think that worked out really I think having to having at least Right? So and I think that worked out really well. I think having to having at least two head Right? So and I think that worked out really So and I think that worked out really well. I think having to having at least two head judges worked out very well.

9:08:35 am – Jonah Kellman:
Absolutely.

9:08:35 am – Daniel Lee:
those Those those Those those poor guys were running all over the place with appeals and calls and whatnot. But yeah, no for sure. Having like you don’t want to run into an actual brick wall of this problem has occurred and it is actually grinding things to a halt and the folks responsible for. It have no way have no just have no ideas for how to fix it. So that’s why we had the sort of the backup score keeper available. In case I believe we were using were at the time. So in case we’re just decided to eat a couple of rounds or something, which is the thing you should like, which is a useful thing for a score could be able to handle. But doesn’t come up a lot.

9:09:15 am – Jonah Kellman:
Right.

9:09:16 am – Daniel Lee:
Yeah. And that the times we remember when the software gets hungry and eats the previous round, we remember them.

9:09:24 am – Jonah Kellman:
Yeah, and

9:09:24 am – Daniel Lee:
so,

9:09:27 am – Jonah Kellman:
To expand on that. One of the things you can do if you are. Either by your own choice of term cruel, or clever as a tournament organizer. You can go to the scorekeeper and go to your judges and be like Oh by the way, I’ve turned off Wi-Fi on the store laptop. So you’re not going to be able to push pairings online. So that’s something that you have to deal with Nexter and you can create these problems in addition to having

9:09:53 am – Daniel Lee:
Uh-huh.

9:09:55 am – Jonah Kellman:
In addition to having scripted rules policy calls, you can create scripted can create scripted logistical issues. scripted rules calls or scripted calls or scripted policy calls, you logistical issues. Just be like Yeah, we don’t have power this round, figure it out. How are you gonna get pairings to players? Sure, they have Sure, they have mobile data on their phones, they can receive the information but you have no way to get it off of your computer. What are you going to do? And if you haven’t worked with paper, pairings before that might be something that you haven’t considered.

9:10:21 am – Daniel Lee:
Yeah, for sure. Okay even more so in an event link world.

9:10:27 am – Jonah Kellman:
Um, yeah.

9:10:28 am – Daniel Lee:
Yeah.

9:10:30 am – Jonah Kellman:
It’s something that you may need to be prepared. For there are venues I have been at events where the power has gone out and how do you handle that?

9:10:41 am – Daniel Lee:
Manifestatory 2019.

9:10:44 am – Jonah Kellman:
DC, 27 Team.

9:10:46 am – Daniel Lee:
Mm-hmm. Yeah, I’ve heard that one as well.

9:10:47 am – Jonah Kellman:
I had. And if there’s an SCG con where the

9:10:47 am – Daniel Lee:
I wasn’t at that one.

9:10:50 am – Jonah Kellman:
power flickered and see, that’s a thing. Here’s a thing at scg con 20, something it happened in the past. Couple of decades, the power flickered and it came back on within two seconds. No impact on the scorekeepers able to

9:11:05 am – Daniel Lee:
Mmm.

9:11:08 am – Jonah Kellman:
print out pairings able to post stuff. But something did turn off and reset. The tournament clocks.

9:11:15 am – Daniel Lee:
The Wi-Fi. Oh, tournament clocks. Oh no.

9:11:18 am – Jonah Kellman:
And there were a couple of folks, I think it was the head judge in the appeals judge for that event. The second, the power came back on. They looked at each other and we’re looking at the clocks and already moving towards them to be like Okay. What time like one of them was pulling out their notebook. For, what, time did I start this round? I’m gonna go fix this clock, because

9:11:36 am – Daniel Lee:
Mm-hmm.

9:11:37 am – Jonah Kellman:
right now we have no idea how much time is left in the round other than written down in my notebook.

9:11:43 am – Daniel Lee:
Right.

9:11:44 am – Jonah Kellman:
And that’s not the sort of if I had not been there, if I had not seen the power go out and the tournament clock get reset. That’s not something I would be cognizant of and

9:11:53 am – Daniel Lee:
Right, exactly and shoot.

9:11:55 am – Jonah Kellman:
Well, power going out is not a common occurrence. You want to be prepared?

9:11:59 am – Daniel Lee:
And I’m also like I’ve been doing this for as long as I’ve been doing this and I don’t usually write down the time I start around. So that’s not a habit I’m in. I would be slightly more hung out to dry in that situation than that person would

9:12:15 am – Jonah Kellman:
Yeah.

9:12:15 am – Daniel Lee:
have been.

9:12:15 am – Jonah Kellman:
I mean,

9:12:16 am – Daniel Lee:
And that, that happens.

9:12:18 am – Jonah Kellman:
Would have had to go look at the paper pairings and be like okay it was printed out at 12:05 I usually take about five minutes to announce for a tournament of this size? Let’s say we started at 12:10. That’s my best guess. and as long as everybody’s getting the same amount of time you have that, but finding the solution from

9:12:33 am – Daniel Lee:
Right.

9:12:37 am – Jonah Kellman:
these. Odd tournament scenarios is.

9:12:41 am – Daniel Lee:
Mm-hmm.

9:12:42 am – Jonah Kellman:
Something that’s that can come up and you can have a little bit of fun with it. You can Have. Certain encounters of events occur. That may not be the usual occurrence, but it’s still something to consider.

9:12:58 am – Daniel Lee:
Yeah for sure. And so it just goes along with the the manufactured scenarios. Some things will come up naturally, but you also get the chance to inject some additional complexity to it. That it’ll be the biggest Dumpster fire of a tournament and that’s okay

9:13:17 am – Jonah Kellman:
Oh yeah.

9:13:17 am – Daniel Lee:
it’s controlled.

9:13:18 am – Jonah Kellman:
Oh it’s Yes, I love it. I love it. The mock Turner and I went to was On fire for beginning to end and the entire time I was just sitting in there sunbathing in the flames. I was just like, This is amazing. All right, what else is going wrong? Oh, that’s not good! Hey, you’ve never handled this before. Look at that fire, go over there. Just pushing new judges towards experiences that at the end. Oh it was incredible to watch.

9:13:46 am – Daniel Lee:
Mm-hmm.

9:13:46 am – Jonah Kellman:
At the beginning of the tournament. Of the like four or five floor judges that we were working with, most of them had never taken a call. They had all certified over the course of the past year and a half and just hadn’t had the opportunity to take a call. And by the end of the tournament, they were like all right, so this is a looking at extra cards because you did X, That means that we’re gonna have to issue this warning, what we’re going to do to fix, this is XYZ and it was incredible to see how much they improved over the course of four hours.

9:14:21 am – Daniel Lee:
Doing Stein has the best story. My favorite exchange for the day me. Have you ever have you received any other warning Today player? I’ve been disqualified already. Two, instead has the best story, my favorite exchange for the day me. Have you ever have you received any other warning Today player? I’ve been disqualified already.

9:14:30 am – Jonah Kellman:
Yeah. But no warnings. No warnings. You can’t upgrade me to game loss. I’m fine here.

9:14:33 am – Daniel Lee:
Yeah, right. that’s, That’s good. Is on you for remembering. To ask that question, but that’s one of those, that’s a little, um, a little off on this one.

9:14:43 am – Jonah Kellman:
Yeah.

9:14:45 am – Daniel Lee:
But yeah, no, you’re, you’re absolutely right being able like and that’s what I’ve been talking about, right? When this is a live drill effectively so you can I am reminded of the movie K-19 Widow Maker when they’re just like, Yeah, I know it’s a submarine movie. I like summer movies. This is.

9:15:02 am – Jonah Kellman:
Okay, okay.

9:15:03 am – Daniel Lee:
That’s another time, but no, the Harrison Ford’s character is the new captain on this. On this brand, new German Russian submarine and the first thing he does, like the moment they start leaving. Doc, is they’re like simulate a fire in this compartment simulator and they, and then you’re like, take some down to 300 meter death, which is like close to crush death, and then, they keep running more drills. And he’s like, I got to push him to the limit, so that we know where it is.

9:15:30 am – Jonah Kellman:
Yeah.

9:15:31 am – Daniel Lee:
and it’s a really, it’s a really interesting concept and so to be able to take a tournament where the results don’t really matter in any meaningful sense and being able to just like, Break it in every, which way, just to. So folks have the opportunity to get experience fixing it.

9:15:51 am – Jonah Kellman:
Yeah, now, I do want to talk about having some restraint, we’ve talked about like, turning off the power and killing the Wi-Fi and DQ evolve your players.

9:16:02 am – Daniel Lee:
Minor deviation says that is clever. And devious, by the way.

9:16:05 am – Jonah Kellman:
Yes, Ha. You should not make your mock tournament. 90% cheating investigations and every round have something.

9:16:13 am – Daniel Lee:
No.

9:16:15 am – Jonah Kellman:
the scorekeeper or scorekeeping software.

9:16:19 am – Daniel Lee:
um so one of the things that ethical panda, which I believe is is Matthew

9:16:24 am – Jonah Kellman:
Yeah.

9:16:24 am – Daniel Lee:
mentioned, is something that threw me when I started taking live calls was, I’d gotten used to looking for the twist after doing a lot of judge seminars which was always a very complicated situation. So I love the idea of getting used to real situations that are often mundane. So there’s a number of benefits to having these like when I was describing the hieroglyph illumination calls that I was doing as a as a presenter at the big SoCal

9:21:15 am – Jonah Kellman:
Yep.

9:21:17 am – Daniel Lee:
And so, but even then we’re still talking. Like we had a, We had a deck checks, team of like six or seven people. So we each individual one of us handled, maybe one or two throughout the day. That’s still adding up to over 10 in the course of a nine round tournament, which is kind of a lot. So it got to the point where the head judge had to issue a, A mandate that these particular kind of sleeves that were being sold by a vendor at the event were acceptably opaque. Even if you could like, slide the card and see it move underneath like Some folks are very good at spotting mark cards better than players. That can cause some problems.

9:22:00 am – Jonah Kellman:
If you’re trained to find mark cards, you’re gonna find Mark cards.

9:22:03 am – Daniel Lee:
Right also. But at that same tournament, I had the most one of the most complicated card counting scenarios I’ve ever seen in which hey Judge Fevered visions has been on the battlefield for some number of turns were each of us has drawn some number of cards from it. We’re not sure how many my opponent just cast tormenting voice and they’re not sure if they’d drawn their cart yet.

9:22:28 am – Jonah Kellman:
Yep.

9:22:28 am – Daniel Lee:
That was the call and I’m just like, so I ended up working through that the benefit on that one. By the way, the fact that we were talking about a possible difference of two cards made it a lot easier to spot because this player definitely should have had should have had those two cards and had not drawn. There was a counter war over the tormenting voice or whatever. So there’s just like the resolve but we’re not sure if the play action through their cards. So like, But that’s my point there is that there’s it’s a mix of experience, it’s always a mixed bag, right? And the complicated, the weird, the thing you gotta catch. Like that’s the exception, that’s not the rule, the rule is most calls are gonna be pretty straightforward in mundane. They’re going to be Hey judge my opponent. Play the card in Japanese. Can I get the Oracle text on that or It’s gonna be, Hey, Judge. I’m just wanted to make sure this thing died. It doesn’t trigger that thing, right? And like like that’s what a lot

9:23:21 am – Jonah Kellman:
Right.

9:23:22 am – Daniel Lee:
So, one of the nice things about mock tournaments is you get to build in that mundanity. If that’s even a word to it, where you can be, like, most of your calls are not going to be able to complicated. There will be and being able to spot those is helpful, but it’s not gonna be every time or most of the time

9:23:42 am – Jonah Kellman:
Right.

9:23:42 am – Daniel Lee:
even

9:23:43 am – Jonah Kellman:
The tournament that I was at was modern and I asked the players at some point. Hey, can you ask our judges just a few, like, I know that you’ve been judging for a decade and you do understand the interaction between Blood Moon and Earth’s a saga, you do understand the interaction between dressed down and called her complete. But can you do me a favor and call over the judges when you play Blood Moon? And there’s a saga and play, just ask them the rules questions that, you know, the answers to. Because that’s not gonna happen. And it turned with a bunch of judges because they’ll be like, yep, this is how this works. And we’re gonna keep on playing, but

9:24:17 am – Daniel Lee:
Right.

9:24:17 am – Jonah Kellman:
you can you can still manufacture those rules questions because having them explain it. Even if they know even if you know, if everybody knows the answer that’s okay because part of the value is in Now we do have

9:24:30 am – Daniel Lee:
Yeah.

9:24:30 am – Jonah Kellman:
Now we do have only a left and there’s something pretty big

9:24:32 am – Daniel Lee:
Right.

9:24:34 am – Jonah Kellman:
that I want to talk about which is

9:24:35 am – Daniel Lee:
Sure.

9:24:36 am – Jonah Kellman:
unsporting conduct particularly

9:24:37 am – Daniel Lee:
Yeah.

9:24:39 am – Jonah Kellman:
outside of cheating.

9:24:40 am – Daniel Lee:
Mm-hmm, don’t overdo it.

9:24:42 am – Jonah Kellman:
Definitely don’t overdo it. Be extraordinarily cautious with it.

9:24:47 am – Daniel Lee:
Yeah.

9:24:48 am – Jonah Kellman:
At the Mach Termin. I went to there was a conversation before the event of Where is our line on faking unsporting conduct? Because if you attempt to fake, At the machtern I went to there was a conversation before the event of Where is our line on faking unsporting conduct? Because if you attempt to fake,

9:24:58 am – Daniel Lee:
Mm-hmm.

9:25:01 am – Jonah Kellman:
Being mean to somebody, If you don’t have their explicit consent into consent of everybody who’s participating. In that scenario, you can actually you use still insult somebody, if you’re if Inappropriate language. It’s inappropriate for a reason and

9:25:18 am – Daniel Lee:
Mm-hmm.

9:25:20 am – Jonah Kellman:
It’s a very fine line to walk. And so, my recommendation is be very, very cautious with unsporting conduct.

9:25:27 am – Daniel Lee:
So, a couple of the ways that we used it to good effect in the big SoCal. One there was, there were a couple of scenarios that were set up. That. The we tended not to air towards the side of USC. Major things were tending towards the size of USC, minor, but fairly latent, USC, minor, like actual, raising your voice at the judge or something like that. Or

9:25:58 am – Jonah Kellman:
Snap appealing.

9:25:59 am – Daniel Lee:
snap appealing is a great example using I don’t know that this term was something we recognized at the time, but microaggressive language. Um, and again like you said, get the explicit consent of all parties, make sure that, if these two players are playing, I remember there’s one that was. It was a, I was a, a guy and a girl we’re playing against each other, and the guy said something after him. Joe Cole’s just like, Yeah. My opponent. I’m guessing she’s probably pretty new. She doesn’t really know what’s going on with no reason to say that. Absolutely no reason to say that. And the nice thing about that was not even so much, that it gave the judge a chance to catch it, which it did. And that judge did catch it and was like, Hey listen, That comment was actually pretty inappropriate. Here’s why I will reinforce this with a warning for USC minor. I need you to be more mindful about the language you’re using so that we can be more welcoming to all the players at the front. It was wonderful, it’s a great interaction. But but even if that hadn’t happened, it does give you a chance to then start that conversation. whereas, if a USC of that nature gets

9:27:09 am – Jonah Kellman:
like,

9:27:11 am – Daniel Lee:
missed in a tournament that player is not going to show up again and we get no chance to remedy that, right?

9:27:15 am – Jonah Kellman:
Yeah, it is.

9:27:16 am – Daniel Lee:
So it’s another place where the the stakes can be used, the lack of stakes can be used to your advantage that being said, players are not that. Crappy generally.

9:27:29 am – Jonah Kellman:
Yeah.

9:27:29 am – Daniel Lee:
Don’t tournament with USC scenarios because

9:27:32 am – Jonah Kellman:
Don’t flip tables.

9:27:34 am – Daniel Lee:
Don’t. Yeah, it’s gonna like you can have someone being belligerent in a in it like you can. There’s benefit to it, but be very careful. Very judicious. Yeah. No fake racism fake. Sexism is is really dicey.

9:27:51 am – Jonah Kellman:
Playing with the line between. faking insulting somebody and actually insulting somebody is a very dangerous line and one that I’d say

9:28:01 am – Daniel Lee:
You’re playing with fire.

9:28:01 am – Jonah Kellman:
Just just don’t unless you absolutely need to. And instead of doing that, maybe spend a half hour before after the tournament doing a short presentation on unsporting, conduct have a scripted displayed scenario where you’re like, all right? So this is very clearly, a scenario where everybody is an actor, we are aware that this is because if you go into a tournament and somebody says something that’s kind of crappy, You don’t act like even at a mock term. You’re not 100% Sure if this is real or acted and we are certainly not

9:28:31 am – Daniel Lee:
Yeah.

9:28:32 am – Jonah Kellman:
trained actors. And so when somebody gives you pushback and they’re like, Oh no, it’s fine. You’re just like, I don’t know if you’re actually being a problem or if

9:28:41 am – Daniel Lee:
Right.

9:28:41 am – Jonah Kellman:
you’re faking it and that’s a very the tournament that I went to this was that at the time, there was a mask mandate in effect and one of our rules was Don’t play with the line

9:28:53 am – Daniel Lee:
Okay.

9:28:57 am – Jonah Kellman:
over masks. Like just don’t try and engage judges on that. That’s not what we’re testing here

9:29:04 am – Daniel Lee:
Mm-hmm.

9:29:04 am – Jonah Kellman:
today because

9:29:05 am – Daniel Lee:
Well, especially since at that point you’re talking about actual safety concerns too, right?

9:29:08 am – Jonah Kellman:
right.

9:29:09 am – Daniel Lee:
Yeah.

9:29:12 am – Jonah Kellman:
It’s USC is very, very unsporting conduct. It’s very difficult to teach. In a safe way especially with improv. And so, my recommendation is Have it be an explicit lesson outside of the tournament. Now we do have just a couple of minutes left so I’m gonna

9:29:32 am – Daniel Lee:
Can I, I really quickly wanted to answer a question that that Matthew

9:29:34 am – Jonah Kellman:
Yes.

9:29:36 am – Daniel Lee:
just post to us. How would you use a mock tournament to help judges get okay? Issuing slow play. So what we did was We had some folks aware to be sort of aware of their surroundings. Notice if there was a judge nearby, that might be like watching their match and to intentionally play slower in order to see if they will, call it on them and then give them that feedback afterwards. So like get it to a point where, you

9:29:57 am – Jonah Kellman:
Yeah.

9:29:59 am – Daniel Lee:
know, a judge is watching your match or at least appears to be watching your match and then intentionally tank extra time, like slow like play slowly in order to see if they’ll call you on it and then you can talk about it. Say, hey, so you Watching my match and I took three minutes to play a single creature. That that strike you as odd or anything like that.

9:30:22 am – Jonah Kellman:
Yeah.

9:30:24 am – Daniel Lee:
So,

9:30:25 am – Jonah Kellman:
Now I would caution that mock tournament, you’re gonna have a much higher rate of judge calls. And so, it’s very possible that the

9:30:29 am – Daniel Lee:
Yes, that’s true.

9:30:29 am – Jonah Kellman:
judge is shadowing. Somebody who’s a table away or involved in a conversation. It might not notice it, but if they’re on your match, say end of round. Maybe if you’re about to go to time, just go to your prone to be like, Hey, I’m gonna go as long as I can without doing anything. You want to see how far I could get and then what I’ve done, you do nothing for as long as you can.

9:30:47 am – Daniel Lee:
Yeah.

9:30:47 am – Jonah Kellman:
Let’s see which one of us get slow play first and you can actually make

9:30:50 am – Daniel Lee:
There you go.

9:30:50 am – Jonah Kellman:
a game of it and see which one of you can be worse. You just like time yourself in any case speaking of time that is our time for today that went by

9:31:00 am – Daniel Lee:
Yeah.

9:31:01 am – Jonah Kellman:
incredibly quickly.

9:31:02 am – Daniel Lee:
That did.

9:31:04 am – Jonah Kellman:
There’s So much to talk about with mock tournaments and something that we want to talk about more. I don’t want to promise anything but this is a project that we’re working on of having some philosophical

9:31:13 am – Daniel Lee:
Yes.

9:31:15 am – Jonah Kellman:
guidelines of this, is what these are the various options that you might have you have regular versus competitive various formats, where you want to put your rocks and

9:31:23 am – Daniel Lee:
Mm-hmm.

9:31:25 am – Jonah Kellman:
reaches all sorts of stuff, and that’s something that we hope to be sharing at some point in the future.

9:31:30 am – Daniel Lee:
Yep. And there will be, there will be some like, some, like kind of cookie cutter scenarios in there. And it’ll be, and a lot of them are going to be for fairly mundane. Like a lot of sets have something like divination, right? You’re cheap blue sorcery, speed, uh, card draw spell. And it’s like okay cast that without blue Mana cast that and draw three cards cast that and draw one card and like just having these things sort of built in will give you a baseline of how like of The sort of run-of-the-mill calls that you’re gonna want your attendees to be taking.

9:32:05 am – Jonah Kellman:
Yeah, well already, that is our time today tomorrow, at 2 pm Pacific. We’ll have Toby Yeah, well already that is our time today tomorrow at 2 pm Pacific. We’ll have Toby Siri talking about how to write as a judge for cover letters applications turn reports and that sort of thing. Thank you for showing up and we’ll

9:32:21 am – Daniel Lee:
Right on.

9:32:22 am – Jonah Kellman:
see in the future.

9:32:23 am – Daniel Lee:
I gotta get to the airport.